3 ms·

This is false and misleading. ThinkPads, while the new ones aren't too much to my taste, are better-constructed, more fully-featured, and more understated than

by kunai 13y ago

This is false and misleading. ThinkPads, while the new ones aren't too much to my taste, are better-constructed, more fully-featured, and more understated than MacBooks. On the AIO side, there are plenty of desktops from Dell and Lenovo that compete quite well. I'm really sick of how every tiniest bit of Apple news is upvoted to the front page. When did a thousand fanboys join HN? I thought this forum was supposed to be about hacking, not hipster products made in Chinese sweatshops.

gaius 13y ago
Yes for a long time, Thinkpads have been of comparable build quality to MBPs, whether you like the "design" (as opposed to, the design) is entirely subjective. Kudos to Lenovo for not letting the build quality slip.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  I just looked at Lenovo's site. I see plastic cases with mechanical latches. This is not "comparable build quality".
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Yeah, I'm inclined to think that Lenovo is surfing on Thinkpad's stellar reputation that predates the jump in quality Apple gave the industry. Thinkpad used to be the best laptops on the market, and in many ways they're still kinda like the old thinkpads. But Apple raised the bar and Lenovo didn't bother following the bar up. I've actually found that some of the higher-end Dell devices are the best at being "apple for Win32 users" but the problem is nobody wants to trust Dell because they make so much utter crap.
    - Moto7451 13y ago
      I've suggested MacBooks to Windows users as solid, if expensive, Windows machines. The ones that went for it have been happy with the setup.
  - ctb_mg 13y ago
    The ThinkPad series has had, for as long as I can remember (including the ThinkPad I got last Christmas), a magnesium rollcage/inner frame [1]. Build quality is more than what you see with your eyes. Sure, it's not pretty and isn't unibody, but that doesn't mean the build quality is uncomparable if you're looking at it from a "ruggedness" perspective. Disclaimer: I owned and used a 13" unibody macbook pro for 3 years. [1] http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/ http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      When the plastic case breaks, can I just take it all off and safely/comfortably use the laptop with only its inner frame? No? Then it's not comparable. When the plastic latches break off, will my laptop stay closed? No? Then it's not comparable. When the slider for the latches breaks off, can I still easily and comfortably open my laptop? No? Then it's not comparable.
      - ctb_mg 13y ago
        I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Can you expand on the reasoning here? You can't take off the unibody of a MBP if the case is dented or damaged and still use it safely/comfortably. My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything -- not even a wifi enable/disable switch. I don't know about the entire series of thinkpads. The lid closes and opens smoothly, no latching mechanism -- and stays in the position you leave it in. It's just as smooth if not smoother than my old 2009 MBP. On the subject of the stigma with 'plastic' cases -- we are not talking about cheap plastic here. The bottom of the laptop is metal of some kind. Same with the edges. The top of the lid is some sort of rubberized metal. The palm rests/speaker area is the only plastic I can find, and it has a similar texture and "solid feel" to the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR -- something also designed to be rugged.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        > I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Because plastic breaks easily. Aluminum is far more durable. I've had no trouble at all with my PowerBook and MacBook Pro cases breaking or even substantially degrading, but every plastic laptop I've ever used has looked like it was hit by a bomb inside a year. > My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything Lenovo's website clearly shows mechanical latches on Thinkpads, e.g.: http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/laptops/ThinkPad-T430-Laptop-PC-Close-up-Camera-View-gallery-845x475.jpg http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/... > we are not talking about cheap plastic here "Cheap plastic" is redundant. > the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR I've been unimpressed with the "ruggedness" of my Pentax SLR and DSLR (the latter a K-5 II). I've been similarly unimpressed with the ruggedness of my father's Canon DSLRs.
rayiner 13y ago
I'll grant you understated, but Thinkpads are not better-constructed. The Macbooks are solid pieces of aluminum. I bought an X220 for my dad and it's a solid machine too, but it doesn't have the same rigidity and has more moving parts to go wrong.
- ctb_mg 13y ago
  Durability is more than feeling solid and not having moving parts. Lenovo do some crazy durability tests [1]. Does Apple do the same? [1]: http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news/35364792_1_thinkpads-mount-everest-laptops http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news...
  - rayiner 13y ago
    That link is marketing fluff. You don't need to take a laptop to Everest to understand that moving part are prone to breakage over time or that a rigid casing will better-protect interior parts. Carbon fiber is prone to cracking while aluminum will generally just dent.
    - ctb_mg 13y ago
      Sorry, let me re-phrase. What objective tests does Apple do to ensure reliability/durability?
jms703 13y ago
plastic breaks

by kunai 13y ago

gaius 13y ago

Yes for a long time, Thinkpads have been of comparable build quality to MBPs, whether you like the "design" (as opposed to, the design) is entirely subjective. Kudos to Lenovo for not letting the build quality slip.

nknighthb 13y ago
I just looked at Lenovo's site. I see plastic cases with mechanical latches. This is not "comparable build quality".
- Pxtl 13y ago
  Yeah, I'm inclined to think that Lenovo is surfing on Thinkpad's stellar reputation that predates the jump in quality Apple gave the industry. Thinkpad used to be the best laptops on the market, and in many ways they're still kinda like the old thinkpads. But Apple raised the bar and Lenovo didn't bother following the bar up. I've actually found that some of the higher-end Dell devices are the best at being "apple for Win32 users" but the problem is nobody wants to trust Dell because they make so much utter crap.
  - Moto7451 13y ago
    I've suggested MacBooks to Windows users as solid, if expensive, Windows machines. The ones that went for it have been happy with the setup.
- ctb_mg 13y ago
  The ThinkPad series has had, for as long as I can remember (including the ThinkPad I got last Christmas), a magnesium rollcage/inner frame [1]. Build quality is more than what you see with your eyes. Sure, it's not pretty and isn't unibody, but that doesn't mean the build quality is uncomparable if you're looking at it from a "ruggedness" perspective. Disclaimer: I owned and used a 13" unibody macbook pro for 3 years. [1] http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/ http://www.lenovo.com/us/laptop/Thinkpad-notebooks/
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    When the plastic case breaks, can I just take it all off and safely/comfortably use the laptop with only its inner frame? No? Then it's not comparable. When the plastic latches break off, will my laptop stay closed? No? Then it's not comparable. When the slider for the latches breaks off, can I still easily and comfortably open my laptop? No? Then it's not comparable.
    - ctb_mg 13y ago
      I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Can you expand on the reasoning here? You can't take off the unibody of a MBP if the case is dented or damaged and still use it safely/comfortably. My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything -- not even a wifi enable/disable switch. I don't know about the entire series of thinkpads. The lid closes and opens smoothly, no latching mechanism -- and stays in the position you leave it in. It's just as smooth if not smoother than my old 2009 MBP. On the subject of the stigma with 'plastic' cases -- we are not talking about cheap plastic here. The bottom of the laptop is metal of some kind. Same with the edges. The top of the lid is some sort of rubberized metal. The palm rests/speaker area is the only plastic I can find, and it has a similar texture and "solid feel" to the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR -- something also designed to be rugged.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        > I don't know why you're using removal of the outer case in the event of damage as a comparison of durability. Because plastic breaks easily. Aluminum is far more durable. I've had no trouble at all with my PowerBook and MacBook Pro cases breaking or even substantially degrading, but every plastic laptop I've ever used has looked like it was hit by a bomb inside a year. > My thinkpad doesn't have mechanical latches for anything Lenovo's website clearly shows mechanical latches on Thinkpads, e.g.: http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/laptops/ThinkPad-T430-Laptop-PC-Close-up-Camera-View-gallery-845x475.jpg http://www.lenovo.com/images/OneWebImages/SubSeries/gallery/... > we are not talking about cheap plastic here "Cheap plastic" is redundant. > the stuff I find on my prosumer DSLR I've been unimpressed with the "ruggedness" of my Pentax SLR and DSLR (the latter a K-5 II). I've been similarly unimpressed with the ruggedness of my father's Canon DSLRs.

rayiner 13y ago

I'll grant you understated, but Thinkpads are not better-constructed. The Macbooks are solid pieces of aluminum. I bought an X220 for my dad and it's a solid machine too, but it doesn't have the same rigidity and has more moving parts to go wrong.

ctb_mg 13y ago
Durability is more than feeling solid and not having moving parts. Lenovo do some crazy durability tests [1]. Does Apple do the same? [1]: http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news/35364792_1_thinkpads-mount-everest-laptops http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-11-26/news...
- rayiner 13y ago
  That link is marketing fluff. You don't need to take a laptop to Everest to understand that moving part are prone to breakage over time or that a rigid casing will better-protect interior parts. Carbon fiber is prone to cracking while aluminum will generally just dent.
  - ctb_mg 13y ago
    Sorry, let me re-phrase. What objective tests does Apple do to ensure reliability/durability?

jms703 13y ago

plastic breaks