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FAA to lift mobile shut-down rule
- changdizzle 13y agolong overdue, everytime i fly i probably see 50% of the people NOT turning off their phones. even more painful is seeing the flight attendant try to actually explain why people need to shut off their devices
- jlgreco 13y agoYeah, I understand the logic behind "The FCC/FAA cannot test every single device for airplane use" but as far as I can tell so many people ignore this rule that if it really were a problem, airplanes would be dropping out of the sky like bricks every day. Many, if not most, people ignore the rule, so it probably isn't a big deal in reality.
- ihsw 13y agoThe issue is when shit hits the fan then will you be able to depend on communications with air traffic control? Other people will be reaching for their phones at the same time, surely radio congestion is a real concern. Or it used to be.
- jadeddrag 13y agoIf this really were a problem, don't you think the bad guys would have already exploited this to cause terror?
- jlgreco 13y agoYeah, that's the other thing. If cellphones were so dangerous, imagine the havoc you could reap with a black trashbag full of old cellphones duct-taped into an old 10' satellite television parabolic dish.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jlgreco 13y agoI strongly suspect that cellphone networks falling over because too many people are trying to call their families are not going to stop a pilot from talking with air traffic control. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I really don't think I am. Regardless, that is what 'airplane mode' is for. Having the device on but not the radio isn't really about that.
- cheald 13y agoWhen the shit hits the fan, I wouldn't expect people to be playing by the rules and leaving their phones off.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago>The issue is when shit hits the fan then will you be able to depend on communications with air traffic control? Yes, when the SHTF aircraft comms will work as designed, not even close to the same frequency bands, nor modulation techniques, nor power output levels. Not even a slight chance that cell phones will interfere. In my minimal experience with airplane crashes[1], the aircraft's electrical system was kaput, and I relayed communications to/from ATC and Fire Dept. via ... wait for it, the pilot's personal cell phone. [1] I ran an FBO at a tiny municipal airport during college (I re-fueled aircraft). I only participated in a few airplane crashes during my tenure there.
- snom380 13y agoIf you want to compare a commercial aircraft with 2-3 independent radios and electrical systems to a light aircraft, I can as well, and I'm happy to tell you that it's trivial to get a cell phone or tablet to cause annoying interference in the headset. I have to turn some of them off during flights, but always keep at least one of them on and away from the instrument panel, in case of an emergency or radio failure (which has actually happened to me once).
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago> I'm happy to tell you that it's trivial to get a cell phone or tablet to cause annoying interference in the headset. I'm happy to tell you that your concerns are trivial. GSM chirping noises in your headset are merely annoying. There are all sorts of other electrical noise sources in light piston powered aircraft, and if they were ever a suspected cause of crashes, wouldn't be allowed to persist, specifically, alternator noise, strobe light generated noise, magneto noise from unshielded p-leads or plug wires, etc. Use shielded signal cable and noise filters on your intercoms if you don't want to hear it anymore (of course, it wouldn't actually go away). >always keep at least one of them on and away from the instrument panel Do you have some reason other than superstition to believe that a cell phone can affect the operation of even your light aircraft instruments? Have you observed your instruments malfunctioning while a cell phone is operating in close proximity, and if so, why would you fly with such obviously unsafe conditions?
- aroch 13y agoThe restrictions do have two benefits though as far as I'm aware: 1) your phone's battery doesn't drain as it's out of range and attempts to poll a tower every few sounds to no avail; and 2) if it does have service, it prevents the fairly large overhead associated with transferring between towers, decreasing network strain.
- jadeddrag 13y agoI'm probably not the only one who does not mind putting the phone in "airplane mode" (which I do anyway), but it is the stupid "must be powered all the way off" that bugs the hell out of me. I just want to listen to my music!
- wyager 13y agoGood. These rules are ridiculous and not founded in reality. No consumer communication device is going to cause harmful interference with avionics or communications equipment, especially in modern planes with double redundancy and heavy shielding. These rules, just like many others, are rooted in nothing more than tradition and superstition.
- melling 13y agoWell, playing Words with Friends is still not allowed. Of course, that becomes next to impossible to prevent. I'm not sure why the transmitters need to be disable because in reality many won't be.
- snom380 13y agoThey want as many transmitters as possible off to reduce the _chance_ of interference. With in-flight Wifi and picocells it will be possible to have everyone connected without having lots of cell phones trying to connect to base stations far away using high power.
- mistercow 13y agoThe thing that gets me about these rules is what an insane threat to national security it would be if they were actually necessary. If anyone really thought that mobile devices could significantly interfere with instruments on an airplane, they should 1) raise hell over fixing our obviously broken planes, and 2) demand that we put some effort into actually making sure that people are turning their cell phones off (for instance, by actually checking, rather than asking politely).
- snom380 13y agoIt's a matter of trade-offs of convenience vs "better safe than sorry". It's not a binary either-or decision. Just like with lithium batteries, which can still cause nasty fires. Yet they aren't banned because if they were, it would be a huge inconvenience.
- fossuser 13y agoThis looks like it will change little. You'll still not be able to listen to music on your device (even if the music is local to the drive) during takeoff and landing. The only change is that you can leave your phone in airplane mode instead of having to power it down. I don't know anybody that actually listened to the flight attendants. Most people just put their phones in airplane mode anyway. So basically nothing actually changes. It would be nice to be able to listen to my music without having to hide my headphones so I don't get yelled at. At least on Virgin they don't bother you because they just assume you're using their entertainment system (which I'd imagine generates more interference then whatever your little device does). I guess on their system you have to watch advertising though - makes it worth it to them.
- piyush_soni 13y agoHuh. Why would you not be able to listen to music in airplane mode? I always do it on my phone, as I have them on my SD card. Now with the new rule when you will be able to keep the phones in airplane mode while take off and landing, I should be able to listen to music without interruption.
- eru 13y agoThey want your attention in case something goes wrong.
- cheald 13y agoI understand this argument, but I've never seen anyone be asked to take out earplugs or stop reading their book to listen to the preflight briefing. It's silly policy with silly justifications.
- Anechoic 13y agoAgreed it's a silly policy. Anecdotally I was asked to remove my headphones during a flight I took about three weeks ago. My headphones are Etymotic mc3 which I use as earplugs during takeoff and landings. I was sitting in an exit row across from a flight attendant who was facing me in her jumpseat. She had no problem with me wearing them (she could see they weren't connected to my iPod), but the head flight attendant came over and told me to remove them for takeoff. As the engines were throttling up for take off, I put my fingers in my ears to (I'm an acoustical consultant and my livelihood depends on my ears so I'm a stickler for protecting my hearing) - the FA sitting across from me saw me do that and told me to go ahead and put my headphones back in.
- cheald 13y agoGood. If they were actually that dangerous, we wouldn't be allowed to carry them on board. Shutting down cell radios makes sense; as I understand it, a bunch of cellphones moving at a couple hundred miles per hour can do some nasty things to cell towers, but it drives me absolutely insane that flight attendants gripe at me about turning off my Kindle. I usually just turn the backlight off.
- mattzito 13y agoI find that having a nondescript black case for my kindle makes it look enough like a book or journal that flight attendants have plausible deniability to claim that it didn't look like an electronic device. Call it the e-book equivalent to brown bagging a beer on the street.
- ShabbyDoo 13y agoI fly twice a week and have found that the actual rule enforced by flight attendants seems to be, "Don't force me to see it."
- WalterSear 13y agoYou solution is to fly business or first class. IME, they just 'suggest' that you turn things off there.
- alexeisadeski3 13y agoAlec Baldwin disagrees.
- retroafroman 13y agoWas it ever known if that was a marketing stunt for Zynga/Words with Friends? The articles I read about the incident pointed out the app specifically, which lead to some speculation.
- 13y ago
- mcescalante 13y agoI'm glad this is finally happening. I have had a number of very poor experiences with flight attendants just because they think that something I've got is turned on. Most of them demand to see the unplugged end of my earbuds if I'm ever wearing them, or stay to watch me power something down.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoTell them you have unbearable anxiety during takeoff, and are liable to have another panic attack / projectile vomiting / crap yourself incident. If they want us to suffer their lies, they may as well suffer ours.
- zippergz 13y agoWhen I've been lucky enough to fly private, they have not once said a peep about turning off my phone, which I'm sure they would have if they were legitimately concerned about safety. Of course, the service doesn't work at altitude, so I tend to put it in airplane mode anyway just to avoid the battery drain of it constantly searching for a signal.
- crusso 13y agoI will be beyond happy to be able to listen to my own music, read off my iPad, and just begin the whole process of ignoring the goings-on in the flight. Travel will be so much better without the useless electronics rules. Now to get rid of the TSA...
- monkey_slap 13y agoAll of these rules usually drive me crazy. I'm a private pilot and I'll take up friends and coworkers for fun all the time. The most common question before we take off is "Do I need to turn off my phone?" which I usually reply with "I leave mine on for backup GPS". I do understand the need to stow away items to prevent injuries if anything were to suddenly happen during takeoff and landing, but telling people to turn off their devices because, and I've heard this before, "they will interfere with the navigation systems" is just false.
- snom380 13y agoAs a private pilot I've had to turn off GSM on tablets and phones to avoid interference in the headset. I still try to keep one cell phone on in case of an emergency. There has been a few reported incidents with laptops etc causing interference with nav systems. While the rule may be too strict, I understand the "better safe than sorry" approach.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago>There has been a few reported incidents with laptops etc causing interference with nav systems. Do you have a source for that?
- snom380 13y agohttp://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/rpsts/ped.pdf http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/docs/rpsts/ped.pdf Search for "laptop" and you have a few examples of spurious TCAS RAs. In some older report there was a specific instance where the pilot out of curiosity had the passenger turn the device back on, and had the problem reappear (this was in cruise so there was more time to debug the problem). Google for NASA PED reports and it should be in one of them.
- monkey_slap 13y agoWhat headset? I'm curious because I've never even heard of that happening.
- nly 13y agoStrange. I thought the reason for shutting off your phone was so you were more likely to pay attention to wtf is going on. You know, for safety procedures etc.
- crdoconnor 13y agoThey never bother you if you're reading the inflight magazine though.
- rossjudson 13y agoThis is a bad decision by the FAA. Do you know the most dangerous phase of flight? It's takeoff. The next most dangerous phase? Landing. It's a good idea to have everyone put their devices away for the first and last five minutes of the flight -- just in case quick action is required by passengers who, without headphone cords and loud entertainment, stand a better chance of following instructions. A drunken asshole on a plane is irritating. A cell-wielding drunken asshole on a plane is unbearable.
- wfunction 13y agoIsn't this mainly an FCC restriction? [1] I thought the main idea was to prevent phones from constantly jumping between towers... does the FAA have much to do with this in reality? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago>I thought See, it is one of the problems caused when authorities lie to people. >the main idea was to prevent phones from constantly jumping between towers. Cell tower interference is the only reason that's ever been offered that even passes the giggle test, but even the FCC now is telling the FAA to ease up on the silly rules.
- darkarmani 13y agoI thought airplane mode was used for the entire flight. Does anyone turn their iphone completely off for takeoff?? or their macbook for that matter?
- obiefernandez 13y agoNews like this makes me think there's a sliver of hope for America. (Then again the article makes it sound like they'll still want you to put your phone into airplane mode.)
- Filligree 13y agoSwitching it to airplane mode makes sense, though.
- zw123456 13y agoNot long ago, there was a piece on the local news about a big lightning storm and how a plane was hit by lightning and they had a guy on from the FAA saying how it is nothing to worry about and that planes are designed such that a lightning strike would not harm it. So, if I am to understanding this correctly... A commercial airliner is in danger from my phone with a 3.7V battery but a million volt lightning strike will not harm anything? hmmmm, that does not add up, sorry. About time they drop this obviously ridiculous rule. Now please, the shoes off at the airport, come on.
- auctiontheory 13y agoDoes putting my iPhone into "Airplane Mode" automagically disable the NSA bugging processes?
- zmk_ 13y agoWow, this is so much more prohibitive than what we have in Europe. I can not remember being asked to switch my phone off it had an airplane mode.