6 ms·

Well, there is some teasing along those lines there: > Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014.

by jsnell 13y ago

Well, there is some teasing along those lines there: > Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. But more importantly, control of Steam gives Valve a lot of leverage in this. It's easy to see the reasons for Linux support in indie games. But harder to see why mid-tier developers like Paradox or Eugen started to port their latest games to Linux. It's a good bet that some kind of a Steam-related carrot was involved there.

rkalla 13y ago
Juho, great call-out with the "Steam-related carrot", I hadn't really thought down that path but you are absolutely right. Valve could easily offer big discounts in their split with the publishers for the first few years for Linux sales. My (possibly very incorrect) assumption was that the profit from the Linux sales were so low as to not matter, but maybe they can provide a catalog-wide carrot... something more significant (as you suggested) to motivate the publisher en-masse.
- sefy98 13y ago
  This was my thought also. Offer $100 in games with the console, or release hl3 only on the console. I'm really glad you guys pointed out this was a console launch because I tried to point it out on reddit and got shut down... http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_announced/ccdwf2q http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_annou...
  - rkalla 13y ago
    Argh, that can be frustrating. I for one certainly agree with you :D
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  This is likely to be coupled with some manner of hardware launch, as well. I am skeptical that the name "Linux" will be a particularly useful term in that context. Couple that with my skepticism that they're actually shipping much if any traditional Linux userspace software, and it's even less useful to compare potential SteamOS users to traditional Linux users. Other than that I agree that with Valve as a patron there's a lot more credibility. Steam was a long-term move, and it paid off. So Valve has a good track record and solid momentum. If they can help make it easy for game companies to port their work, taking out a significant or non-trivial amount of work and offer the carrot of sales & paying customers, I could see this taking off. I was skeptical of Steam back in 2004 but I wasn't thinking long term enough. Launching your own operating system isn't a short term move. It suggests to me that this will only get better and more impressive over time, if Valve is as committed to this as it seems.
  - davidhollander 13y ago
    What are your definitions for "traditional Linux userspace software" and "traditional Linux users"? Do you consider Android to be "Linux"?
    - wonderzombie 13y ago
      "Traditional Linux userspace software" is an informal definition, but let's say something like X. Or your average window manager. Or, say, almost anything from GNOME. "Traditional Linux users" is another informal definition, but if you use a distro, you're probably a traditional Linux user. Contrast this with an Android user. They run the Linux kernel but the software they interface with is an entirely different breed. The statement "Android is Linux" is true, definitely, but it's inside baseball to anyone but us nerds. The Linux-y aspects are more or less invisible (by design). I'm not trying to slight either desktop Linux or Android or SteamOS or whatever, just to be clear. I think it's a huge win for Linux, at least in some sense. I think it's misleading to read "Linux" and imagine "desktop GNU/Linux with all the trimmings." I can't imagine there won't be some way to get that on a SteamOS machine. My skepticism is directed at the idea that Valve will ship anything which, out of the box, resembles a traditional desktop Linux experience. I expect it will be more like an Android experience than Ubuntu, with rather limited access to OS internals, filesystem, package management, etc. Does that make more sense?
      - dkbk 13y ago
        The closeness of the SteamOS experience to that of a typical desktop Linux distro is irrelevant. If it runs on the Steam Box, it will run on a Linux desktop of compatible architecture. Considering there is already Steam for Linux, its probable that Valve will ensure Linux games run on both platforms equally well. In any case, if there is no need for "all the trimmings", if Valve just wants to make an entertainment pipeline, then that's fine by me. It's the same kernel; this is a huge win for Linux by any measure.
        ekianjo 13y ago
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Even if the market is small, it's critical to be "first" than later. That way you get a bigger share of the market instead of being drowned in an ocean of software like on many app stores these days.
- asabjorn 13y ago
  A steam-related carrot with lower fees might be a huge incentive. But when we are speculating a gaming company in the business of selling $60-$100 games might be more worried about their ability to differentiate their products from sub-$10 games. If they believe steambox could provide that then it might be an easy sell.
criley2 13y ago
Remember: The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11, meaning that games for next-gen consoles (read: AAA) will be DirectX by DEFAULT but will certainly not be OpenGL by default. And OpenGL is a requirement for Linux support of these games. How Valve is strong arming manufacturers into writing the graphics code for their games in BOTH frameworks is beyond me. I'm not sure the major engines out there support both either. But Microsoft won a massive coup this generation with all consoles being Win7 developer kits + Visual Studio 2012 + DirectX 11. With Microsoft providing the major tools for AAA-games, it's going to be harder going forward, not easier, for the Linux proponents to make their case and win.
- McGlockenshire 13y ago
  > The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11 I'd love to know where Sony said that the PS4 uses DirectX.
  - ieatdots 13y ago
    They discussed it at length at GDC: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/sony-dives-deep-into-the-ps4s-hardware-power-controller-features-at-gdc/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/sony-dives-deep-into-t...
    - CatMtKing 13y ago
      That doesn't seem to say the same thing: the article says it has the feature set, but it doesn't say it uses DX11.1+. Edit: oh, just read MLR's comment.
  - visualphoenix 13y ago
    Both PS4 and Xbox One are now on the X86 architecture. They also share the same GPU (with minor differences). PS4 runs a BSD derived OS with a Sony-specific graphics library called RSX (very similar to OpenGL, but much lower level). Xbox 360 and PS3 games threw away the fixed function graphics pipeline. Everything was done with shaders. With Linux graphics drivers nearing OpenGL3 compliance, it is much more feasible to target Linux in addition to Windows and Consoles without needing to re-architect the graphics architecture of your engine. It will be trivial for next-gen developers to target PC/PS4/Xbox One/SteamBox. Some clever folks might even be able to compile once and dynamically link against platform-specific graphics/platform libraries. :) edit: this was directed at criley2 - not McGlockenshire

by jsnell 13y ago

rkalla 13y ago

Juho, great call-out with the "Steam-related carrot", I hadn't really thought down that path but you are absolutely right. Valve could easily offer big discounts in their split with the publishers for the first few years for Linux sales. My (possibly very incorrect) assumption was that the profit from the Linux sales were so low as to not matter, but maybe they can provide a catalog-wide carrot... something more significant (as you suggested) to motivate the publisher en-masse.

sefy98 13y ago
This was my thought also. Offer $100 in games with the console, or release hl3 only on the console. I'm really glad you guys pointed out this was a console launch because I tried to point it out on reddit and got shut down... http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_announced/ccdwf2q http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1mywq0/steamos_annou...
- rkalla 13y ago
  Argh, that can be frustrating. I for one certainly agree with you :D
wonderzombie 13y ago
This is likely to be coupled with some manner of hardware launch, as well. I am skeptical that the name "Linux" will be a particularly useful term in that context. Couple that with my skepticism that they're actually shipping much if any traditional Linux userspace software, and it's even less useful to compare potential SteamOS users to traditional Linux users. Other than that I agree that with Valve as a patron there's a lot more credibility. Steam was a long-term move, and it paid off. So Valve has a good track record and solid momentum. If they can help make it easy for game companies to port their work, taking out a significant or non-trivial amount of work and offer the carrot of sales & paying customers, I could see this taking off. I was skeptical of Steam back in 2004 but I wasn't thinking long term enough. Launching your own operating system isn't a short term move. It suggests to me that this will only get better and more impressive over time, if Valve is as committed to this as it seems.
- davidhollander 13y ago
  What are your definitions for "traditional Linux userspace software" and "traditional Linux users"? Do you consider Android to be "Linux"?
  - wonderzombie 13y ago
    "Traditional Linux userspace software" is an informal definition, but let's say something like X. Or your average window manager. Or, say, almost anything from GNOME. "Traditional Linux users" is another informal definition, but if you use a distro, you're probably a traditional Linux user. Contrast this with an Android user. They run the Linux kernel but the software they interface with is an entirely different breed. The statement "Android is Linux" is true, definitely, but it's inside baseball to anyone but us nerds. The Linux-y aspects are more or less invisible (by design). I'm not trying to slight either desktop Linux or Android or SteamOS or whatever, just to be clear. I think it's a huge win for Linux, at least in some sense. I think it's misleading to read "Linux" and imagine "desktop GNU/Linux with all the trimmings." I can't imagine there won't be some way to get that on a SteamOS machine. My skepticism is directed at the idea that Valve will ship anything which, out of the box, resembles a traditional desktop Linux experience. I expect it will be more like an Android experience than Ubuntu, with rather limited access to OS internals, filesystem, package management, etc. Does that make more sense?
    - dkbk 13y ago
      The closeness of the SteamOS experience to that of a typical desktop Linux distro is irrelevant. If it runs on the Steam Box, it will run on a Linux desktop of compatible architecture. Considering there is already Steam for Linux, its probable that Valve will ensure Linux games run on both platforms equally well. In any case, if there is no need for "all the trimmings", if Valve just wants to make an entertainment pipeline, then that's fine by me. It's the same kernel; this is a huge win for Linux by any measure.
      - ekianjo 13y ago
ekianjo 13y ago
Even if the market is small, it's critical to be "first" than later. That way you get a bigger share of the market instead of being drowned in an ocean of software like on many app stores these days.
asabjorn 13y ago
A steam-related carrot with lower fees might be a huge incentive. But when we are speculating a gaming company in the business of selling $60-$100 games might be more worried about their ability to differentiate their products from sub-$10 games. If they believe steambox could provide that then it might be an easy sell.

criley2 13y ago

Remember: The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11, meaning that games for next-gen consoles (read: AAA) will be DirectX by DEFAULT but will certainly not be OpenGL by default. And OpenGL is a requirement for Linux support of these games. How Valve is strong arming manufacturers into writing the graphics code for their games in BOTH frameworks is beyond me. I'm not sure the major engines out there support both either. But Microsoft won a massive coup this generation with all consoles being Win7 developer kits + Visual Studio 2012 + DirectX 11. With Microsoft providing the major tools for AAA-games, it's going to be harder going forward, not easier, for the Linux proponents to make their case and win.

McGlockenshire 13y ago
> The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11 I'd love to know where Sony said that the PS4 uses DirectX.
- ieatdots 13y ago
  They discussed it at length at GDC: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/sony-dives-deep-into-the-ps4s-hardware-power-controller-features-at-gdc/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/sony-dives-deep-into-t...
  - CatMtKing 13y ago
    That doesn't seem to say the same thing: the article says it has the feature set, but it doesn't say it uses DX11.1+. Edit: oh, just read MLR's comment.
- visualphoenix 13y ago
  Both PS4 and Xbox One are now on the X86 architecture. They also share the same GPU (with minor differences). PS4 runs a BSD derived OS with a Sony-specific graphics library called RSX (very similar to OpenGL, but much lower level). Xbox 360 and PS3 games threw away the fixed function graphics pipeline. Everything was done with shaders. With Linux graphics drivers nearing OpenGL3 compliance, it is much more feasible to target Linux in addition to Windows and Consoles without needing to re-architect the graphics architecture of your engine. It will be trivial for next-gen developers to target PC/PS4/Xbox One/SteamBox. Some clever folks might even be able to compile once and dynamically link against platform-specific graphics/platform libraries. :) edit: this was directed at criley2 - not McGlockenshire