7 ms·

On a similar but different note, there were stories of children getting upset at the new look of iOS 7. When I saw the headline I thought it odd, because I doub

by Osmium 13y ago

On a similar but different note, there were stories of children getting upset at the new look of iOS 7. When I saw the headline I thought it odd, because I doubt the designers of iOS 7 ever thought they'd actually make someone cry with the new design. But what can be done about it? Good design is important, but sometimes things have to be changed, and ultimately a lot people just don't like change. Even if it's the best design in the world, somebody, somewhere will struggle with it being different. I think some "hand holding" as you suggest would be a good idea, but I'm not sure how that could be done in practice.

johnminter 13y ago
Then there are those of us at the opposite end of the age spectrum... I hated the look of iOS 7. Very hard on aging eyes. Replaced the wallpaper with a custom photo with my favorite background color for my text editor. Still can't find a way to get the high contrast, dark keypad back. Grrr. (expletive deleted), Apple - not everything needs to look like an hipster toy...
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  And then there are those of us who love the new design in iOS 7. And I know quite a few non-technical people who also think it's great. UI changes, no matter how great, are always going to piss off someone. A lot of the time that someone probably has a very good reason to be pissed off. BUT the changes might also benefit a lot of people who aren't as vocal. We shouldn't hold back innovation because we're scared of pissing people off. Of course we also shouldn't change just for the sake of it. [This isn't directed specifically at the parent but at the issue in general].
  - mempko 13y ago
    It could be said a different way. Design changes, no matter how shitty, are always going to have someone love them....
- VLM 13y ago
  You have two peculiar observations brought about by one root cause and drifted off into the wrong theoretical cause. The root cause is the traditional old style vs substance. This fits your observation that its harder to use, both to read and to keyboard. But its not marketed / designed as a tool to do anything, its a fashion accessory, so its irrelevant if its usable. What matters is if its shiny. That led you astray into the whole ageism anti-hipster thing. I also laugh at hipster kids, but the problem in this individual scenario has nothing to do with age. Imagine if a hardware store released the iHammer and it was just like a conventional hammer, but cost much more so you could show off how rich you must be, and was painted blue, they made the hammer head pointy to be edgy and cool, had lace tied around the handle, and shipped it in a really cool origami clear plastic box. Anyone in search of a productive carpenters tool is going to be horribly disappointed and make fun of the iHammer, but thats not the point, the correct reason to buy a iHammer is to show off to their peers. iDevices are no longer useful. That's OK. They're supposed to be fashion accessories, not useful devices.
  - coldpie 13y ago
    > iDevices are no longer useful. That's OK. They're supposed to be fashion accessories, not useful devices. Unfortunately the issue is the lack of a quality alternative. My best friend was an iPhone user, then switched to a Samsung Galaxy S2 because he wanted to be able to use is phone as a mass storage device, among other things. Eventually he switched back to the iPhone because the Galaxy was so unreliable. After less than a year, his phone would just silently shut off a couple times throughout the day. And he's far from the only person I know who's had Android reliability problems. My old HTC Incredible would stop responding to input a couple times a week until I yanked the battery. All that said, I'm sticking with Android because I have a high tolerance for pain. iDevices may no longer be useful, but at least they work.
    - the_watcher 13y ago
      The iPhone is the best mobile option. I am much more attracted to Android than iOS (openness, the app store policies), but it just doesn't work as well as iOS. It's a bit cliche, but iPhone's just work.
- parasubvert 13y ago
  Have you tried "invert colors" under accessibility? Makes the color palette rather crazy but at least everything is dark. I don't understand what light colours have to do with hipsters though, most UIs tend towards lighter colours, it's the old school unix coonsoles that preferred dark.
- Poiesis 13y ago
  There is a setting that might help, although it does not seem to affect the keyboard much if at all: Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Increase Contrast
PaulHoule 13y ago
I have an 11 year old who is always bitching about Windows 8.
- Casseres 13y ago
  I'm not a parent, but do you think that is acceptable behavior? (Regardless of the product, service, or situation.) I can't imagine wanting to be the teacher or classmate of said 11 year old if he/she is always "bitching" about stuff. And if that behavior continues into adulthood, I can't imagine being the boss or coworker of him/her. Such negative social qualities might be detrimental to his/her professional success and social well-being. I wouldn't be able to say for certain until I have kids, but it might be beneficial to teach your 11 year old how to tactfully and constructively discuss the negative aspects of something rather than just "bitching" about it.
ern 13y ago
On a similar but different note, there were stories of children getting upset at the new look of iOS 7 This was a real concern for me. I made sure my children (19 months, 4 years old) could unlock my iPhone with iOS 7, before upgrading their iPad Mini. Unfortunately I forgot about Spotlight Search, and the older one was complaining about it being missing after the upgrade (he knows he can find apps by typing in the first letter). I showed him how to activate it but I can imagine many people never (re)discovering the feature, and possibly limiting the number of apps they install because they can't search for them easily.
phaus 13y ago
I think Steve Jobs himself would have cried if he saw either IOS 7 or the iPhone 5C. One looks clunky and amateurish; the other is simply hideous and was designed specifically to increase margins while delivering an inferior product to the customer(sure its still well made, but most people would rather have an all metal case.)
- sarreph 13y ago
  Steve Jobs knew that both iOS 7 and the iPhone 5C were coming, and most likely a lot more. http://www.ibtimes.com/steve-jobs-dies-leaves-plans-4-years-worth-new-products-321953 http://www.ibtimes.com/steve-jobs-dies-leaves-plans-4-years-...
  - phaus 13y ago
    Did he know that they were going to be terrible? Given Apple's history of making attractive devices, I for one didn't see this coming.
    - ceejayoz 13y ago
      Steve Jobs was at the helm for the Flower Power iMac, remember. http://www.forevermac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/picture-6.png http://www.forevermac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/picture...
      - phaus 13y ago
        The Steve Jobs that left Apple as the most valuable company in the world had matured quite a bit from the one that released those.
      - sjwright 13y ago
        People tend to learn from disastrous mistakes.
- mattlutze 13y ago
  John Gruber voiced an interesting perspective on the "Jobs would have _____" syndrome surrounding Apple products (scroll to "Defining Innovation Down"): daringfireball.net/2013/09/the_iphone_5s_and_5c Having been an initial iPhone Luddite, I remember the posts I'd read discussing the detractors of various models. The criticism of this update, and a number of others since Jobs died, have an incredibly similar tenor. What I find inspirational is that by force of personality alone, Steve Jobs convinced so many customers that the products' let-downs were much less meaningful than those customers and proponents would have normally felt. That is a truly remarkable skill.
pdonis 13y ago
sometimes things have to be changed Why? If a UI works for people, why does it have to be changed? That seems to me to be at least part of the problem: software designers think things have to be changed, when it's really just that they want to change them, for whatever reason, and don't stop to think about the impact. a lot people just don't like change A lot of people have things that work perfectly well for them and don't like having to re-learn their workflow whenever some software designer has a bright idea. I'm one of them: I still run a KDE 3 desktop on Linux because it works for me and I don't like having my UI messed with just because somebody designed some new eye candy.
- jliechti1 13y ago
  This how I feel about every version of Skype (for OS X) since version 2.8.x. The Skype UI had two windows - one for contacts and one for conversations. This made it easy to tuck Skype in a small corner of your screen. I think starting at version 5 they switched to one giant window and the community, pretty unanimously thought it was one of the worst UIs they had ever used (see this blog post: http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/03/30/skype_5/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/03/30/skype_5/). The change seemed completely unnecessary and made things very non intuitive. If I myself had trouble using it, I think it must have been even worse for people who do not use computers so often. Indeed many people reverted back to 2.8. I used 2.8 up until a few months ago when Skype finally decided to drop video support for it. I think the newest version of Skype does let you break things into new windows, but to me it seems that it should be the default. My main point is: the UI was already great, it didn't need any changes.
  - nmcfarl 13y ago
    I'm still using 2.8 - if the other side cares about video, we'll use a google hangout, but skype's never getting upgraded again. Man was that a disaster.
- icoder 13y ago
  There can be numerous of reasons why something 'has' to be changed. These changes are not always justified from some perspectives of course. If these perspectives represent the majority and also on the long run, something's wrong and perhaps that is your point. But sometimes, change is for the better, for the majority, especially on the long run. Often, with software design, you reach local optima, and to get further (more user friendly, more flexible, incorporating new or changed features, adapt changes in hardware, or things happening outside, etc), you'll need to move away from the sweet spot the majority settled with to get to another (hopefully better adjusted) local optimum. Finding examples of cases where this did not work are no argument against all changes. And as far as people not liking change. This is not only about re-learning. Change on itself is often met with tough resistance. And this resistance is often rationally hard to justify. Your example may or may not be like that (I don't have enough perspective to tell), but perhaps re-learning would have been more than compensated by the amount of time saved due to new features.
DanBC 13y ago
> Good design is important The new GMail UI is most emphatically not good design.

by Osmium 13y ago

johnminter 13y ago

Then there are those of us at the opposite end of the age spectrum... I hated the look of iOS 7. Very hard on aging eyes. Replaced the wallpaper with a custom photo with my favorite background color for my text editor. Still can't find a way to get the high contrast, dark keypad back. Grrr. (expletive deleted), Apple - not everything needs to look like an hipster toy...

k-mcgrady 13y ago
And then there are those of us who love the new design in iOS 7. And I know quite a few non-technical people who also think it's great. UI changes, no matter how great, are always going to piss off someone. A lot of the time that someone probably has a very good reason to be pissed off. BUT the changes might also benefit a lot of people who aren't as vocal. We shouldn't hold back innovation because we're scared of pissing people off. Of course we also shouldn't change just for the sake of it. [This isn't directed specifically at the parent but at the issue in general].
- mempko 13y ago
  It could be said a different way. Design changes, no matter how shitty, are always going to have someone love them....
VLM 13y ago
You have two peculiar observations brought about by one root cause and drifted off into the wrong theoretical cause. The root cause is the traditional old style vs substance. This fits your observation that its harder to use, both to read and to keyboard. But its not marketed / designed as a tool to do anything, its a fashion accessory, so its irrelevant if its usable. What matters is if its shiny. That led you astray into the whole ageism anti-hipster thing. I also laugh at hipster kids, but the problem in this individual scenario has nothing to do with age. Imagine if a hardware store released the iHammer and it was just like a conventional hammer, but cost much more so you could show off how rich you must be, and was painted blue, they made the hammer head pointy to be edgy and cool, had lace tied around the handle, and shipped it in a really cool origami clear plastic box. Anyone in search of a productive carpenters tool is going to be horribly disappointed and make fun of the iHammer, but thats not the point, the correct reason to buy a iHammer is to show off to their peers. iDevices are no longer useful. That's OK. They're supposed to be fashion accessories, not useful devices.
- coldpie 13y ago
  > iDevices are no longer useful. That's OK. They're supposed to be fashion accessories, not useful devices. Unfortunately the issue is the lack of a quality alternative. My best friend was an iPhone user, then switched to a Samsung Galaxy S2 because he wanted to be able to use is phone as a mass storage device, among other things. Eventually he switched back to the iPhone because the Galaxy was so unreliable. After less than a year, his phone would just silently shut off a couple times throughout the day. And he's far from the only person I know who's had Android reliability problems. My old HTC Incredible would stop responding to input a couple times a week until I yanked the battery. All that said, I'm sticking with Android because I have a high tolerance for pain. iDevices may no longer be useful, but at least they work.
  - the_watcher 13y ago
    The iPhone is the best mobile option. I am much more attracted to Android than iOS (openness, the app store policies), but it just doesn't work as well as iOS. It's a bit cliche, but iPhone's just work.
parasubvert 13y ago
Have you tried "invert colors" under accessibility? Makes the color palette rather crazy but at least everything is dark. I don't understand what light colours have to do with hipsters though, most UIs tend towards lighter colours, it's the old school unix coonsoles that preferred dark.
Poiesis 13y ago
There is a setting that might help, although it does not seem to affect the keyboard much if at all: Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> Increase Contrast

PaulHoule 13y ago

I have an 11 year old who is always bitching about Windows 8.

Casseres 13y ago
I'm not a parent, but do you think that is acceptable behavior? (Regardless of the product, service, or situation.) I can't imagine wanting to be the teacher or classmate of said 11 year old if he/she is always "bitching" about stuff. And if that behavior continues into adulthood, I can't imagine being the boss or coworker of him/her. Such negative social qualities might be detrimental to his/her professional success and social well-being. I wouldn't be able to say for certain until I have kids, but it might be beneficial to teach your 11 year old how to tactfully and constructively discuss the negative aspects of something rather than just "bitching" about it.

ern 13y ago

On a similar but different note, there were stories of children getting upset at the new look of iOS 7 This was a real concern for me. I made sure my children (19 months, 4 years old) could unlock my iPhone with iOS 7, before upgrading their iPad Mini. Unfortunately I forgot about Spotlight Search, and the older one was complaining about it being missing after the upgrade (he knows he can find apps by typing in the first letter). I showed him how to activate it but I can imagine many people never (re)discovering the feature, and possibly limiting the number of apps they install because they can't search for them easily.

phaus 13y ago

I think Steve Jobs himself would have cried if he saw either IOS 7 or the iPhone 5C. One looks clunky and amateurish; the other is simply hideous and was designed specifically to increase margins while delivering an inferior product to the customer(sure its still well made, but most people would rather have an all metal case.)

sarreph 13y ago
Steve Jobs knew that both iOS 7 and the iPhone 5C were coming, and most likely a lot more. http://www.ibtimes.com/steve-jobs-dies-leaves-plans-4-years-worth-new-products-321953 http://www.ibtimes.com/steve-jobs-dies-leaves-plans-4-years-...
- phaus 13y ago
  Did he know that they were going to be terrible? Given Apple's history of making attractive devices, I for one didn't see this coming.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    Steve Jobs was at the helm for the Flower Power iMac, remember. http://www.forevermac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/picture-6.png http://www.forevermac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/picture...
    - phaus 13y ago
      The Steve Jobs that left Apple as the most valuable company in the world had matured quite a bit from the one that released those.
    - sjwright 13y ago
      People tend to learn from disastrous mistakes.
mattlutze 13y ago
John Gruber voiced an interesting perspective on the "Jobs would have _____" syndrome surrounding Apple products (scroll to "Defining Innovation Down"): daringfireball.net/2013/09/the_iphone_5s_and_5c Having been an initial iPhone Luddite, I remember the posts I'd read discussing the detractors of various models. The criticism of this update, and a number of others since Jobs died, have an incredibly similar tenor. What I find inspirational is that by force of personality alone, Steve Jobs convinced so many customers that the products' let-downs were much less meaningful than those customers and proponents would have normally felt. That is a truly remarkable skill.

pdonis 13y ago

sometimes things have to be changed Why? If a UI works for people, why does it have to be changed? That seems to me to be at least part of the problem: software designers think things have to be changed, when it's really just that they want to change them, for whatever reason, and don't stop to think about the impact. a lot people just don't like change A lot of people have things that work perfectly well for them and don't like having to re-learn their workflow whenever some software designer has a bright idea. I'm one of them: I still run a KDE 3 desktop on Linux because it works for me and I don't like having my UI messed with just because somebody designed some new eye candy.

jliechti1 13y ago
This how I feel about every version of Skype (for OS X) since version 2.8.x. The Skype UI had two windows - one for contacts and one for conversations. This made it easy to tuck Skype in a small corner of your screen. I think starting at version 5 they switched to one giant window and the community, pretty unanimously thought it was one of the worst UIs they had ever used (see this blog post: http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/03/30/skype_5/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2011/03/30/skype_5/). The change seemed completely unnecessary and made things very non intuitive. If I myself had trouble using it, I think it must have been even worse for people who do not use computers so often. Indeed many people reverted back to 2.8. I used 2.8 up until a few months ago when Skype finally decided to drop video support for it. I think the newest version of Skype does let you break things into new windows, but to me it seems that it should be the default. My main point is: the UI was already great, it didn't need any changes.
- nmcfarl 13y ago
  I'm still using 2.8 - if the other side cares about video, we'll use a google hangout, but skype's never getting upgraded again. Man was that a disaster.
icoder 13y ago
There can be numerous of reasons why something 'has' to be changed. These changes are not always justified from some perspectives of course. If these perspectives represent the majority and also on the long run, something's wrong and perhaps that is your point. But sometimes, change is for the better, for the majority, especially on the long run. Often, with software design, you reach local optima, and to get further (more user friendly, more flexible, incorporating new or changed features, adapt changes in hardware, or things happening outside, etc), you'll need to move away from the sweet spot the majority settled with to get to another (hopefully better adjusted) local optimum. Finding examples of cases where this did not work are no argument against all changes. And as far as people not liking change. This is not only about re-learning. Change on itself is often met with tough resistance. And this resistance is often rationally hard to justify. Your example may or may not be like that (I don't have enough perspective to tell), but perhaps re-learning would have been more than compensated by the amount of time saved due to new features.

DanBC 13y ago

> Good design is important The new GMail UI is most emphatically not good design.