4 ms·

I'd bet the desire to immigrate to a location is probably a lagging indicator behind that location's actual long-term economic trends. A number of my Pakistani

by m0th87 13y ago

I'd bet the desire to immigrate to a location is probably a lagging indicator behind that location's actual long-term economic trends. A number of my Pakistani relatives wish to immigrate to the US, but they also hold absurd and idealized notions of what it's like here, propped up by our cultural exports (Hollywood movies they grew up with, etc.)

tptacek 13y ago
There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington to amend immigration laws to allow for it. It's hard to make the claim that those doctors and software engineers are all conned by Hollywood.
- m0th87 13y ago
  Not in the literal sense. But you can't not have a distorted vision of a country you haven't even visited.
  - josephjrobison 13y ago
    From what I've observed - a lot of immigrant tech workers have family or friends that had already immigrated to the US for jobs that can tell them what the situation is really like, so I would say the majority of them know what the US is really like. Plus 4x or greater wage increase doesn't hurt.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  As one of those highly skilled professionals, I'm starting to have doubts about my decision to immigrate to the US. I'm treated as a second-class citizen, viewed with a great deal of suspicion (the government audited my H1B application three times, at great expense to me), and am not even allowed to start my own business until I get a green card (if they don't reject me for some bullshit reason).
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Interesting. Why did you decide to immigrate here?
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      I was 18 and had just graduated from high school. At the time I had a vague idea about wanting to study computer science, and my home country's universities did not have good CS programs. When I got into one of the top CS programs in the US (UW), it became a no-brainer. (Ironically I ended up studying Information Science instead!) What I didn't know at the time was how difficult the US government would make it for me to first get a job and then to become a permanent resident. Every dealing I do with the government I feel the undercurrent of not being wanted here - as if they are looking for an excuse to reject me, as opposed to actually wanting my skills and intelligence to contribute to the economy and doing everything they can to make me stay. If I return home now, with my degrees and five years of experience in a software company, I can easily start my own firm. I'm telling myself that if the US government throws one more obstacle my way, I'm going to say fuck it and do just that. (When I go back for vacations and talk to younger people who are considering coming here, I tell them don't do it - it's just not worth the hassle.)
      - tptacek 13y ago
        Can I ask which country that is? (I'm mostly just curious).
        enraged_camel 13y ago
        Turkey.
        tptacek 13y ago
        Cool. As I understand it, Turkey has a relatively dynamic economy compared to Europe; it seems like it benefits from straddling the European continent and west Asia. I don't know what to say about immigration being inhospitable to you. Obviously, I think we'd be better off with more skilled CS grads, and shipping them back to economic competitors does not seem like a great long-term strategy.
- rhizome 13y ago
  There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington... What is the mechanism by which highly skilled professionals who have not yet emigrated are exerting pressure in Washington?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Their prospective employers form political action groups and get laws proposed, which is what is in fact happening.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      Is there any indication of the source of the desire you describe? That is, how are you characterizing it as desire on the part of the prospective employees rather than the industry participants and the lobbyists they hire? It's just that it seems strange to see an assertion that companies and associations are acting on behalf of people who don't work for them.
      - tptacek 13y ago
        You're wondering why employers would want to make it easier for people to immigrate and become prospective employees?
        rhizome 13y ago
        No, I know that's what's going on, it's just that I'm trying to unwind the tortured syntax you use to say it: There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington... You ascribe pressure in Washington to those prospective unemployed and unemigrated employees. That doesn't sound a little inverted from the state of affairs described from the perspective of the employers?
        tptacek 13y ago

by m0th87 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago

There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington to amend immigration laws to allow for it. It's hard to make the claim that those doctors and software engineers are all conned by Hollywood.

m0th87 13y ago
Not in the literal sense. But you can't not have a distorted vision of a country you haven't even visited.
- josephjrobison 13y ago
  From what I've observed - a lot of immigrant tech workers have family or friends that had already immigrated to the US for jobs that can tell them what the situation is really like, so I would say the majority of them know what the US is really like. Plus 4x or greater wage increase doesn't hurt.
enraged_camel 13y ago
As one of those highly skilled professionals, I'm starting to have doubts about my decision to immigrate to the US. I'm treated as a second-class citizen, viewed with a great deal of suspicion (the government audited my H1B application three times, at great expense to me), and am not even allowed to start my own business until I get a green card (if they don't reject me for some bullshit reason).
- tptacek 13y ago
  Interesting. Why did you decide to immigrate here?
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    I was 18 and had just graduated from high school. At the time I had a vague idea about wanting to study computer science, and my home country's universities did not have good CS programs. When I got into one of the top CS programs in the US (UW), it became a no-brainer. (Ironically I ended up studying Information Science instead!) What I didn't know at the time was how difficult the US government would make it for me to first get a job and then to become a permanent resident. Every dealing I do with the government I feel the undercurrent of not being wanted here - as if they are looking for an excuse to reject me, as opposed to actually wanting my skills and intelligence to contribute to the economy and doing everything they can to make me stay. If I return home now, with my degrees and five years of experience in a software company, I can easily start my own firm. I'm telling myself that if the US government throws one more obstacle my way, I'm going to say fuck it and do just that. (When I go back for vacations and talk to younger people who are considering coming here, I tell them don't do it - it's just not worth the hassle.)
    - tptacek 13y ago
      Can I ask which country that is? (I'm mostly just curious).
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        Turkey.
        tptacek 13y ago
        Cool. As I understand it, Turkey has a relatively dynamic economy compared to Europe; it seems like it benefits from straddling the European continent and west Asia. I don't know what to say about immigration being inhospitable to you. Obviously, I think we'd be better off with more skilled CS grads, and shipping them back to economic competitors does not seem like a great long-term strategy.
rhizome 13y ago
There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington... What is the mechanism by which highly skilled professionals who have not yet emigrated are exerting pressure in Washington?
- tptacek 13y ago
  Their prospective employers form political action groups and get laws proposed, which is what is in fact happening.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Is there any indication of the source of the desire you describe? That is, how are you characterizing it as desire on the part of the prospective employees rather than the industry participants and the lobbyists they hire? It's just that it seems strange to see an assertion that companies and associations are acting on behalf of people who don't work for them.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      You're wondering why employers would want to make it easier for people to immigrate and become prospective employees?
      - rhizome 13y ago
        No, I know that's what's going on, it's just that I'm trying to unwind the tortured syntax you use to say it: There is also a huge desire among highly skilled professionals to immigrate to the US, so much so that there's pressure in Washington... You ascribe pressure in Washington to those prospective unemployed and unemigrated employees. That doesn't sound a little inverted from the state of affairs described from the perspective of the employers?
        tptacek 13y ago