3 ms·

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the crimes that both the citizens and the non-citizens were charged with were different and yet one group got a lesser

by eshvk 13y ago

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the crimes that both the citizens and the non-citizens were charged with were different and yet one group got a lesser sentence?

nraynaud 13y ago
These are not non-citizens, these are citizens from another country. I'm a bit tired of US people using this vocable too.
- rjbwork 13y ago
  While I agree with the sentiment, as an American, it becomes a bit difficult to not let the verbiage of the media and power seep into your vernacular.
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    Orwell agrees. "foreigner" or "alien" convey the exact meaning you are looking for without implying the person comes from a barbaric non-democratic country (ironically on the day they elect their deputies, and transitively, their leader).
- randallsquared 13y ago
  Uh, since "people not claimed by any country" is essentially an empty set, I don't see a reason to avoid using this term for it's more usual meaning of "people not a citizen of the country with the law to which we're referring".
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    1) alas it's a largely non-empty set, there are international treaties (one of them asking countris not to remove the last citizenship of someone) and UN branches dedicated to the problem. I think currently it happens mostly in eastern Europe and Africa. At the personal level, loosing some papers, having registries burned during a war and being from a not really liked ethnic background might make your nationality hard to prove. There are systems trying to give "quickly" a nationality to a refugee. It is seen as a legal emergency. 2) the word was actually created as the opposite of "subject" (of the ruler), to insist on the democratic side, not as the opposite of "foreigner".
    - randallsquared 13y ago
      Hm. I guess my objection to using "foreigner" is that it sounds slightly pejorative. "Non-citizen", by contrast, sounds only descriptive. But I'd be fine with figuring out a different mainly-descriptive word. :)
- eshvk 13y ago
  As a happy non-citizen of the U.S., I think the term is acceptable and succinct.

by eshvk 13y ago

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the crimes that both the citizens and the non-citizens were charged with were different and yet one group got a lesser sentence?

nraynaud 13y ago

These are not non-citizens, these are citizens from another country. I'm a bit tired of US people using this vocable too.

rjbwork 13y ago
While I agree with the sentiment, as an American, it becomes a bit difficult to not let the verbiage of the media and power seep into your vernacular.
- nraynaud 13y ago
  Orwell agrees. "foreigner" or "alien" convey the exact meaning you are looking for without implying the person comes from a barbaric non-democratic country (ironically on the day they elect their deputies, and transitively, their leader).
randallsquared 13y ago
Uh, since "people not claimed by any country" is essentially an empty set, I don't see a reason to avoid using this term for it's more usual meaning of "people not a citizen of the country with the law to which we're referring".
- nraynaud 13y ago
  1) alas it's a largely non-empty set, there are international treaties (one of them asking countris not to remove the last citizenship of someone) and UN branches dedicated to the problem. I think currently it happens mostly in eastern Europe and Africa. At the personal level, loosing some papers, having registries burned during a war and being from a not really liked ethnic background might make your nationality hard to prove. There are systems trying to give "quickly" a nationality to a refugee. It is seen as a legal emergency. 2) the word was actually created as the opposite of "subject" (of the ruler), to insist on the democratic side, not as the opposite of "foreigner".
  - randallsquared 13y ago
    Hm. I guess my objection to using "foreigner" is that it sounds slightly pejorative. "Non-citizen", by contrast, sounds only descriptive. But I'd be fine with figuring out a different mainly-descriptive word. :)
eshvk 13y ago
As a happy non-citizen of the U.S., I think the term is acceptable and succinct.