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Anyone who can solve hard theoretical problems can pick up a Ph.D. quickly. Why? Because the main requirement for a Ph.D. is just the research. Commonly there

by graycat 13y ago

Anyone who can solve hard theoretical problems can pick up a Ph.D. quickly. Why? Because the main requirement for a Ph.D. is just the research. Commonly there is no coursework requirement. For the research, the main requirement is that it be publishable, and there the main criteria are "new, correct, and significant". It's a grim, nearly bloody, literally life threatening fact of life, that doing such research is really tough and the main challenge of a Ph.D. The Ph.D. training is supposed to help people do such research, and it does. Still the research is tough. Without the Ph.D. training, such research is much more difficult. Net, the idea that a Ph.D. is not needed for good research can be true only for really rare exceptions. Again, getting a Ph.D. is tough, yes, life threatening, and the main challenge is just the research. Broadly there's another option: Now the richest area of the US is likely within 100 miles of the Washington Monument in DC. Why? Because the US Federal Government has a license to print money - literally! Simple. My career started there, and that area just loves technical Ph.D. holders. I failed to understand just how much that area loves such Ph.D. holders and should not have left. You can apply to US Civil Service and/or individual parts of the Federal Government or to the huge number of private companies that do work for the Federal Government. The Washington Post used to be a fast way to get job ads, send a few resume copies, go on seven interviews, and get five offers (I did that once). Some routine Google searching should get you a lot of names and addresses, and sending 100 resumes should get you some good offers.

Iftheshoefits 13y ago
Your first paragraph is a bit too simplistic. There are still political issues (institutional political issues) that impede otherwise good researchers (and some, many even, dropout--there's a reason that "ABD" exists as an abbreviation, and it isn't because PhDs needed a quick and handy shorthand to cast aspersions) from getting the degree itself. Doing the research necessary to write a dissertation really isn't that tough for somebody who is bright enough to tackle the problem. Its navigating the waters of academic politics and knowing the right people to be able to get into a research program that fits one's skills that is the toughest part. If this seems like it's familiar, it should be: academia has as much political and networking based "merit" as any place else. It just manifests differently there.
- graycat 13y ago
  Sure, your point that a Ph.D. program can be a political mud hole is correct. For your > get into a research program that fits one's skills that is the toughest part. I didn't bother with that and, instead, picked my own problem, did my own research, and submitted my results. My professors had very little idea what I was doing until I was done and submitted my work. Net, my "research program" was mine. Maybe in some fields, e.g., cell biology, can't do what I did and your description is correct. But if pick a good school, then what I said is simple but correct. E.g., Johns Hopkins, where I got my Ph.D., then, and maybe still, has no official coursework requirement for a Ph.D. The official requirement for a dissertation was, and maybe still is, "an original contribution to knowledge worthy of publication". If there is any doubt, then the student can just submit the work for publication. In my case, I took a problem I noticed in a course, did a pass by the library to confirm that there was no solution in the literature, worked up a rough solution, asked for a 'reading course' to attack the problem, got the course approved, and right away showed my rough solution. Two weeks later I had a nice, clean, solid solution. I walked my original work around campus to some world famous guys, and they saw my work as new. So my work was clearly publishable. So, in two weeks I'd met the official requirement for a dissertation. My work was not trivial: I found a new result comparable with the classic Whitney extension theorem and applied my result to solve the problem I'd started with but noticed that my work also solved a problem stated but not solved in a famous paper by Arrow, Hurwicz, and Uzawa. Poor Uzawa may still have not gotten his Nobel prize! I didn't try to use that work as my dissertation, but the reading course credit filled out what I needed for a Master's. Also my research in that reading course put a halo on my head so that a Ph.D. was much more likely. Let me emphasize again, the key is in one word, research. For my dissertation, I took a problem I'd brought to graduate school, done the research on it independently in my first summer, got the work approved as my dissertation, wrote and ran some illustrative software, wrote up my work, stood for an oral exam, and got my Ph.D. For the work of the reading course, I published that later in a good journal. In most good research universities, a student who passes the qualifying exams and has some good, publishable work will have to do something really strange not to get a Ph.D. Some good research can make the political mud wrestling disappear quickly. The main reason for ABD is the challenge of doing some research that is publishable, "new, correct, and significant". If there is any doubt about the quality of the work, then just publish it. The definition of a good algorithm is from J. Edmonds. He was a graduate student at U. Maryland, told the faculty to stuff it, went to NBS, did some research on graph theory, published it, and got a visit from U. Maryland saying that if he would take copies of his papers, put them in a stack, put a staple in a corner, and submit that as his dissertation, then he'd get his Ph.D. Again, the point is the research. The mud wrestling is nonsense easily wiped away by some good research.
jackmaney 13y ago
"Anyone who can solve hard theoretical problems can pick up a Ph.D. quickly. Why? Because the main requirement for a Ph.D. is just the research. Commonly there is no coursework requirement." 0_o What Ph.D. program has no course requirements?
- agilebyte 13y ago
  The UK kind.
  - jackmaney 13y ago
    Care to give a specific example?
    - agilebyte 13y ago
      The following gives you a listing of UK CS PhD Projects: http://www.findaphd.com/search/phd.aspx?DID=8&Location=UK&TID=1 http://www.findaphd.com/search/phd.aspx?DID=8&Location=UK&TI... I suspect there are more projects than this. The way it works is you like a particular lab, you contact their PI, agree on a topic, and work on it for 3-4 years. In Cambridge (where I work), the university enrols all research students in a "Research Skills" course/workshop, but that is it. If they believe you are not up to snuff, you might be asked to complete an MPhil/MRes course first which does have a taught component. Apparently, if you fail this part, and in some circles, you will be seen as a PhD failure. Apparently.
      - jackmaney 13y ago
        Huh. Well, the more you know, and all that.
- graycat 13y ago
  > 0_o What Ph.D. program has no course requirements? When I got my Ph.D. at Johns Hopkins, the official statement was that there were no coursework requirements for a Ph.D. At times the math department at Princeton has stated on their Web site that graduate students are expected to prepare for the qualifying exams on their own, that courses are introductions to research fields by experts in those fields, and no courses are offered for preparation for the qualifying exams. So, with no courses, pass the qualifying exams, do some research, and graduate. How to do the research? If some of the courses help, fine. Still the main requirement is the research, just the research. It's all about the research. Can cover the main requirement in one word -- research. Did I mention that the main point is the research? Sure, in high school and college, academic success is almost entirely about just courses, credits, and grades. For a Ph.D. at a good research university, the emphasis is elsewhere -- did I mention research?

by graycat 13y ago

Iftheshoefits 13y ago

Your first paragraph is a bit too simplistic. There are still political issues (institutional political issues) that impede otherwise good researchers (and some, many even, dropout--there's a reason that "ABD" exists as an abbreviation, and it isn't because PhDs needed a quick and handy shorthand to cast aspersions) from getting the degree itself. Doing the research necessary to write a dissertation really isn't that tough for somebody who is bright enough to tackle the problem. Its navigating the waters of academic politics and knowing the right people to be able to get into a research program that fits one's skills that is the toughest part. If this seems like it's familiar, it should be: academia has as much political and networking based "merit" as any place else. It just manifests differently there.

graycat 13y ago
Sure, your point that a Ph.D. program can be a political mud hole is correct. For your > get into a research program that fits one's skills that is the toughest part. I didn't bother with that and, instead, picked my own problem, did my own research, and submitted my results. My professors had very little idea what I was doing until I was done and submitted my work. Net, my "research program" was mine. Maybe in some fields, e.g., cell biology, can't do what I did and your description is correct. But if pick a good school, then what I said is simple but correct. E.g., Johns Hopkins, where I got my Ph.D., then, and maybe still, has no official coursework requirement for a Ph.D. The official requirement for a dissertation was, and maybe still is, "an original contribution to knowledge worthy of publication". If there is any doubt, then the student can just submit the work for publication. In my case, I took a problem I noticed in a course, did a pass by the library to confirm that there was no solution in the literature, worked up a rough solution, asked for a 'reading course' to attack the problem, got the course approved, and right away showed my rough solution. Two weeks later I had a nice, clean, solid solution. I walked my original work around campus to some world famous guys, and they saw my work as new. So my work was clearly publishable. So, in two weeks I'd met the official requirement for a dissertation. My work was not trivial: I found a new result comparable with the classic Whitney extension theorem and applied my result to solve the problem I'd started with but noticed that my work also solved a problem stated but not solved in a famous paper by Arrow, Hurwicz, and Uzawa. Poor Uzawa may still have not gotten his Nobel prize! I didn't try to use that work as my dissertation, but the reading course credit filled out what I needed for a Master's. Also my research in that reading course put a halo on my head so that a Ph.D. was much more likely. Let me emphasize again, the key is in one word, research. For my dissertation, I took a problem I'd brought to graduate school, done the research on it independently in my first summer, got the work approved as my dissertation, wrote and ran some illustrative software, wrote up my work, stood for an oral exam, and got my Ph.D. For the work of the reading course, I published that later in a good journal. In most good research universities, a student who passes the qualifying exams and has some good, publishable work will have to do something really strange not to get a Ph.D. Some good research can make the political mud wrestling disappear quickly. The main reason for ABD is the challenge of doing some research that is publishable, "new, correct, and significant". If there is any doubt about the quality of the work, then just publish it. The definition of a good algorithm is from J. Edmonds. He was a graduate student at U. Maryland, told the faculty to stuff it, went to NBS, did some research on graph theory, published it, and got a visit from U. Maryland saying that if he would take copies of his papers, put them in a stack, put a staple in a corner, and submit that as his dissertation, then he'd get his Ph.D. Again, the point is the research. The mud wrestling is nonsense easily wiped away by some good research.

jackmaney 13y ago

"Anyone who can solve hard theoretical problems can pick up a Ph.D. quickly. Why? Because the main requirement for a Ph.D. is just the research. Commonly there is no coursework requirement." 0_o What Ph.D. program has no course requirements?

agilebyte 13y ago
The UK kind.
- jackmaney 13y ago
  Care to give a specific example?
  - agilebyte 13y ago
    The following gives you a listing of UK CS PhD Projects: http://www.findaphd.com/search/phd.aspx?DID=8&Location=UK&TID=1 http://www.findaphd.com/search/phd.aspx?DID=8&Location=UK&TI... I suspect there are more projects than this. The way it works is you like a particular lab, you contact their PI, agree on a topic, and work on it for 3-4 years. In Cambridge (where I work), the university enrols all research students in a "Research Skills" course/workshop, but that is it. If they believe you are not up to snuff, you might be asked to complete an MPhil/MRes course first which does have a taught component. Apparently, if you fail this part, and in some circles, you will be seen as a PhD failure. Apparently.
    - jackmaney 13y ago
      Huh. Well, the more you know, and all that.
graycat 13y ago
> 0_o What Ph.D. program has no course requirements? When I got my Ph.D. at Johns Hopkins, the official statement was that there were no coursework requirements for a Ph.D. At times the math department at Princeton has stated on their Web site that graduate students are expected to prepare for the qualifying exams on their own, that courses are introductions to research fields by experts in those fields, and no courses are offered for preparation for the qualifying exams. So, with no courses, pass the qualifying exams, do some research, and graduate. How to do the research? If some of the courses help, fine. Still the main requirement is the research, just the research. It's all about the research. Can cover the main requirement in one word -- research. Did I mention that the main point is the research? Sure, in high school and college, academic success is almost entirely about just courses, credits, and grades. For a Ph.D. at a good research university, the emphasis is elsewhere -- did I mention research?