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Possible, but I'd imagine unlikely. Why would a PhD apply for a code monkey job? Most don't do so intentionally, certainly they didn't get a PhD to become a cod

Possible, but I'd imagine unlikely. Why would a PhD apply for a code monkey job? Most don't do so intentionally, certainly they didn't get a PhD to become a code monkey. So if they are willingly doing so, they probably exhausted all alternative career options or think they have. In which case, while they may ask for more money, I don't think they would actually turn down the job if denied.

sliverstorm 13y ago
certainly they didn't get a PhD to become a code monkey Well, what did they get it to become? I bet most of them don't even know. I know I contemplated a graduate degree, and if I had done it, it would have been for love of the material and love of learning, not because I knew precisely what I was going to do with it.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Well the whole problem with "knowing what you'll do with a PhD" is, if we knew how research was going to turn out, we wouldn't have to do it. A PhD is training to probe into the unknown, which means that the economic yields of research are, by definition, unknown, which means finding jobs for researchers at for-profit businesses is hard.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I get that. Which is exactly why it is feasible to me that a PhD might wind up applying for code monkey jobs.
  - foobarbazqux 13y ago
    Since it's a hard problem, it sounds like someone should write their PhD thesis on finding jobs for researchers at for-profit businesses.
    - selimthegrim 13y ago
      I believe S. Brin and L. Page have locked that dissertation topic up.....but might take a while to submit.
  - gaius 13y ago
    No, a PhD is training to become an academic. It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Whether that's true or not it starts out the interview on a bad footing. What if a guy walked into your company and said "I couldn't get a job at Google so I thought I'd try you schmucks"?
    - amirmc 13y ago
      > " ... a PhD is training to become an academic." Back in the day, so was doing an undergraduate degree. If you wanted a job in industry, that's what you did. University was for academic pursuits. > "It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Whether that's true or not it starts out the interview on a bad footing." It's not reasonable to assume that at all. Last time I checked, the majority of PhDs leave academia after their degree (they don't want a post-doc - so don't even try). I do understand why non-PhDs in industry may harbour false impressions about the degree and why that can set things off on a bad footing. > "What if a guy walked into your company and said 'I couldn't get a job at Google so I thought I'd try you schmucks'?" This is completely independent of whether or not someone has a PhD. Undergrads can do this too.
      - gaius 13y ago
        Of course it is reasonable, or not unreasonable if you prefer. As in, a normal person would not be thought outlandish for thinking it, and particularly, it is actually perfectly normal for interviewers to think so.
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Let's conduct a poll. Other than you, did anyone here who's been involved with PhD holders or grad-school and academia themselves actually think this? How many of us actual academicy types actually think it's "lowering oneself" to work in industry? I don't. I do think that both academia and industry need to drop their utterly ridiculous notions of professional passion, because most people most of the time will never work on Their Life's Defining Passion when there are bills to pay, but industry can certainly come up with problems just as big, just as hard, and just as worthy as academia. http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvard.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvar...
- tomrod 13y ago
  I'm getting mine so I have the toolkit and experience to solve a certain class of problems. It's certainly something I could have taught myself over the years, but at the time and now it makes sense to me (i.e. sunk costs are irrelevant, only a little bit left to finish).

sliverstorm 13y ago

certainly they didn't get a PhD to become a code monkey Well, what did they get it to become? I bet most of them don't even know. I know I contemplated a graduate degree, and if I had done it, it would have been for love of the material and love of learning, not because I knew precisely what I was going to do with it.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Well the whole problem with "knowing what you'll do with a PhD" is, if we knew how research was going to turn out, we wouldn't have to do it. A PhD is training to probe into the unknown, which means that the economic yields of research are, by definition, unknown, which means finding jobs for researchers at for-profit businesses is hard.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I get that. Which is exactly why it is feasible to me that a PhD might wind up applying for code monkey jobs.
- foobarbazqux 13y ago
  Since it's a hard problem, it sounds like someone should write their PhD thesis on finding jobs for researchers at for-profit businesses.
  - selimthegrim 13y ago
    I believe S. Brin and L. Page have locked that dissertation topic up.....but might take a while to submit.
- gaius 13y ago
  No, a PhD is training to become an academic. It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Whether that's true or not it starts out the interview on a bad footing. What if a guy walked into your company and said "I couldn't get a job at Google so I thought I'd try you schmucks"?
  - amirmc 13y ago
    > " ... a PhD is training to become an academic." Back in the day, so was doing an undergraduate degree. If you wanted a job in industry, that's what you did. University was for academic pursuits. > "It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Whether that's true or not it starts out the interview on a bad footing." It's not reasonable to assume that at all. Last time I checked, the majority of PhDs leave academia after their degree (they don't want a post-doc - so don't even try). I do understand why non-PhDs in industry may harbour false impressions about the degree and why that can set things off on a bad footing. > "What if a guy walked into your company and said 'I couldn't get a job at Google so I thought I'd try you schmucks'?" This is completely independent of whether or not someone has a PhD. Undergrads can do this too.
    - gaius 13y ago
      Of course it is reasonable, or not unreasonable if you prefer. As in, a normal person would not be thought outlandish for thinking it, and particularly, it is actually perfectly normal for interviewers to think so.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    It's reasonable to assume that a PhD has lowered themselves to work in industry because they couldn't get a post-doc. Let's conduct a poll. Other than you, did anyone here who's been involved with PhD holders or grad-school and academia themselves actually think this? How many of us actual academicy types actually think it's "lowering oneself" to work in industry? I don't. I do think that both academia and industry need to drop their utterly ridiculous notions of professional passion, because most people most of the time will never work on Their Life's Defining Passion when there are bills to pay, but industry can certainly come up with problems just as big, just as hard, and just as worthy as academia. http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvard.html http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2010/11/why-im-leaving-harvar...
tomrod 13y ago
I'm getting mine so I have the toolkit and experience to solve a certain class of problems. It's certainly something I could have taught myself over the years, but at the time and now it makes sense to me (i.e. sunk costs are irrelevant, only a little bit left to finish).