5 ms·

I'm all for harsh punitive measures for (convicted) business-crooks, but are these SWAT raids on peoples' businesses (and homes) ever a good idea? What good can

I'm all for harsh punitive measures for (convicted) business-crooks, but are these SWAT raids on peoples' businesses (and homes) ever a good idea? What good can come from a bunch of stormtroopers bum-rushing an office?

adamnemecek 13y ago
Justification for budget increases of said SWAT teams? /s
- tnorthcutt 13y ago
  Absolutely. You might be interested in Radley Balko's book: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610392116 http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americ...
throwawayyyz 13y ago
Intimidation. They use the same tactics against raw dairy operations.
- maratd 13y ago
  Bingo. You see a bunch of guys with machine guns coming out of nowhere, you may spill your beans right there and all of that is admissible in court.
  - lostlogin 13y ago
    We New Zealanders are so in awe of this BS technique that we showed off our copy to our US overlords with the Dotcom raid. Unfortunately we neglected to make the techniques used legal first, so the drawn out court process has been a bit painful and compensation payouts to him are likely.
porpoisemonkey 13y ago
I'm not sure where you got the idea that these raids were conducted by SWAT teams. The article only vaguely alludes to "federal agents".
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  In bulletproof vests. Presumably heavily armed.
  - porpoisemonkey 13y ago
    I don't think that just because they were wearing bulletproof vests you can reasonably infer "SWAT". Many law enforcement agencies have written or unwritten requirements to wear bulletproof vests when in the field. http://www.bja.gov/Publications/PERF_BodyArmor.pdf http://www.bja.gov/Publications/PERF_BodyArmor.pdf "Our first main finding was that almost all law enforcement agencies (99.4 per- cent) from across the country report that their officers wear body armor when on duty." - BJA/PERF Body Armor National Survey - page 36
    - DanBC 13y ago
      Ignoring the word "SWAT" for the moment this was a raid on corporate offices for people smuggling honey. I'm not sure why officers were armed. I guess I can understand why they wear protective clothing (but are shootings in that situation common?) Are honey smugglers really going to shoot law enforcement? You need lots of people in the raid to prevent employees shredding and deleting everything.
      - a3n 13y ago
        > I'm not sure why officers were armed. My assumption is that any officer who is armed at the moment is always armed, and any officer who is always armed will be armed when he visits you. In other words, being armed in this instance may not be particularly interesting. Now, if they had their arms drawn at the ready, that might be more than interesting.
enraged_camel 13y ago
I hate defending the feds here, but often times these types of legitimate-looking businesses are actually fronts for something else, such as arms trade. When you're raiding an office you have no idea what you will find, so it's better to be over-prepared and over-armed than under-prepared and under-armed.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  Sure. But by that logic, why don't we have the SWAT teams perform all traffic stops? I would be willing to bet that more cops are shot during traffic stops than anywhere else.....
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  >When you're raiding an office you have no idea what you will find, These are not responders chasing a suspect, they are investigators. How does a professional investigator find himself in some kind of Jean Claude van Damme B-movie-esque arms warehouse cum office by surprise? Sounds like you think they shouldn't need to investigate anything, just barge in and see how it goes. >so it's better to be over-prepared and over-armed than under-prepared and under-armed. Better for whom?

adamnemecek 13y ago

Justification for budget increases of said SWAT teams? /s

tnorthcutt 13y ago
Absolutely. You might be interested in Radley Balko's book: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610392116 http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americ...

throwawayyyz 13y ago

Intimidation. They use the same tactics against raw dairy operations.

maratd 13y ago
Bingo. You see a bunch of guys with machine guns coming out of nowhere, you may spill your beans right there and all of that is admissible in court.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  We New Zealanders are so in awe of this BS technique that we showed off our copy to our US overlords with the Dotcom raid. Unfortunately we neglected to make the techniques used legal first, so the drawn out court process has been a bit painful and compensation payouts to him are likely.

porpoisemonkey 13y ago

I'm not sure where you got the idea that these raids were conducted by SWAT teams. The article only vaguely alludes to "federal agents".

dredmorbius 13y ago
In bulletproof vests. Presumably heavily armed.
- porpoisemonkey 13y ago
  I don't think that just because they were wearing bulletproof vests you can reasonably infer "SWAT". Many law enforcement agencies have written or unwritten requirements to wear bulletproof vests when in the field. http://www.bja.gov/Publications/PERF_BodyArmor.pdf http://www.bja.gov/Publications/PERF_BodyArmor.pdf "Our first main finding was that almost all law enforcement agencies (99.4 per- cent) from across the country report that their officers wear body armor when on duty." - BJA/PERF Body Armor National Survey - page 36
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Ignoring the word "SWAT" for the moment this was a raid on corporate offices for people smuggling honey. I'm not sure why officers were armed. I guess I can understand why they wear protective clothing (but are shootings in that situation common?) Are honey smugglers really going to shoot law enforcement? You need lots of people in the raid to prevent employees shredding and deleting everything.
    - a3n 13y ago
      > I'm not sure why officers were armed. My assumption is that any officer who is armed at the moment is always armed, and any officer who is always armed will be armed when he visits you. In other words, being armed in this instance may not be particularly interesting. Now, if they had their arms drawn at the ready, that might be more than interesting.

enraged_camel 13y ago

I hate defending the feds here, but often times these types of legitimate-looking businesses are actually fronts for something else, such as arms trade. When you're raiding an office you have no idea what you will find, so it's better to be over-prepared and over-armed than under-prepared and under-armed.

einhverfr 13y ago
Sure. But by that logic, why don't we have the SWAT teams perform all traffic stops? I would be willing to bet that more cops are shot during traffic stops than anywhere else.....
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
>When you're raiding an office you have no idea what you will find, These are not responders chasing a suspect, they are investigators. How does a professional investigator find himself in some kind of Jean Claude van Damme B-movie-esque arms warehouse cum office by surprise? Sounds like you think they shouldn't need to investigate anything, just barge in and see how it goes. >so it's better to be over-prepared and over-armed than under-prepared and under-armed. Better for whom?