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"Touch ID does not store any images of your fingerprint. It stores only a mathematical representation of your fingerprint" Everybody questioning about wether t

"Touch ID does not store any images of your fingerprint. It stores only a mathematical representation of your fingerprint" Everybody questioning about wether they can or can't rebuild your finger print from the mathematical model. While this is relevant, it's just one of the many implications that implementing finger-print technology in mass-production products has. Apple here is saying that the "mathematical representation" of your finger-print IS stored. Where? Nobody knows. Locally? Cloud? Very likely they will abuse this, as they are abusing social data in general. I'll just leave it here: "So, we have your day-to-day activities and a solid face recognition mathemtical model thanks to facebook, all your phone data thanks to Apple and Google, now we will have your finger print as well" As far as i'm concerned, at the moment NSA reversing from the mathematical model to the actual finger-print image is quite irrelevant and the general sitution is becoming disturbing.

interpol_p 13y ago
> Apple here is saying that the "mathematical representation" of your finger-print IS stored. Where? Nobody knows. Locally? Cloud? Apple explicitly says that fingerprint data is not backed up to iCloud. The data is only stored in what they are calling "Secure Enclave" on the A7. From my understanding this is an area of the SoC that is out of reach to all processes and most of iOS itself. From the article: "The Secure Enclave is walled off from the rest of A7 and as well as the rest of iOS." I think all OS processes that wish to interact with the secure enclave must do so through a secure monitor. The idea is that the secure processes are completely isolated from anything untrusted.
- jnardiello 13y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out. While this is safely storing models from third party apps, there's literally nothing assuring us that Apple or "Trusted parties" will not access the data.
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    Apple tend to be pretty pro-consumer when it comes to privacy. Apple is not interested in your fingerprint data, they are interested in your trust and convenience. Those two things are far more likely to get you to buy things.
    - jnardiello 13y ago
      This is funny. Apple is a multi-billion business involved in politics and power. Their role puts them in the unique position of accessing millions of people data, let's not talk about "how much they love their customers" because doesn't apply. They reached the current status thanks to the help of lobbies and institutions (private and public), anyone who doesn't "fit the requirements" of strong powers is wiped from the market.
      - interpol_p 13y ago
        I am unsure of your point. Apple being a big company does not prevent them from storing fingerprint data securely. They don't want your fingerprint data. They want your money. They are more likely to get your money if you trust them. You are more likely to trust them if they don't lie about how they store your fingerprint data. It's pretty straight forward and perfectly in line with their past behaviour.
        numbsafari 13y ago
        You can't convince someone who didn't even bother to read the article before coming to such a strong opinion about what he believes.
        jnardiello 13y ago
        I read the article. And this is unnecessarily arrogant.
- giovannibajo1 13y ago
  It's more likely that the fingerprint matching is made by a hardware component that is not the main CPU. The CPU talks to it with a driver which only issues answers like "finger matched" or "finger error". The CPU has no way to read the actual fingerprint data and performs operation on it, because otherwise any jailbreak would be able to access those data, and thus any "agency" with a 0-day.
  - interpol_p 13y ago
    Yes, this is the understanding I have as well. Some are claiming that Apple's "Secure Enclave" is their branding of ARM's TrustZone. [1] [1] http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/trustzone.php http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/trustzon...

interpol_p 13y ago

> Apple here is saying that the "mathematical representation" of your finger-print IS stored. Where? Nobody knows. Locally? Cloud? Apple explicitly says that fingerprint data is not backed up to iCloud. The data is only stored in what they are calling "Secure Enclave" on the A7. From my understanding this is an area of the SoC that is out of reach to all processes and most of iOS itself. From the article: "The Secure Enclave is walled off from the rest of A7 and as well as the rest of iOS." I think all OS processes that wish to interact with the secure enclave must do so through a secure monitor. The idea is that the secure processes are completely isolated from anything untrusted.

jnardiello 13y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. While this is safely storing models from third party apps, there's literally nothing assuring us that Apple or "Trusted parties" will not access the data.
- interpol_p 13y ago
  Apple tend to be pretty pro-consumer when it comes to privacy. Apple is not interested in your fingerprint data, they are interested in your trust and convenience. Those two things are far more likely to get you to buy things.
  - jnardiello 13y ago
    This is funny. Apple is a multi-billion business involved in politics and power. Their role puts them in the unique position of accessing millions of people data, let's not talk about "how much they love their customers" because doesn't apply. They reached the current status thanks to the help of lobbies and institutions (private and public), anyone who doesn't "fit the requirements" of strong powers is wiped from the market.
    - interpol_p 13y ago
      I am unsure of your point. Apple being a big company does not prevent them from storing fingerprint data securely. They don't want your fingerprint data. They want your money. They are more likely to get your money if you trust them. You are more likely to trust them if they don't lie about how they store your fingerprint data. It's pretty straight forward and perfectly in line with their past behaviour.
      - numbsafari 13y ago
        You can't convince someone who didn't even bother to read the article before coming to such a strong opinion about what he believes.
        jnardiello 13y ago
        I read the article. And this is unnecessarily arrogant.
giovannibajo1 13y ago
It's more likely that the fingerprint matching is made by a hardware component that is not the main CPU. The CPU talks to it with a driver which only issues answers like "finger matched" or "finger error". The CPU has no way to read the actual fingerprint data and performs operation on it, because otherwise any jailbreak would be able to access those data, and thus any "agency" with a 0-day.
- interpol_p 13y ago
  Yes, this is the understanding I have as well. Some are claiming that Apple's "Secure Enclave" is their branding of ARM's TrustZone. [1] [1] http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/trustzone.php http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/trustzon...