3 ms·

Why? The problem isn't with the phones. The Z10 and Q10 are fantastic and BB10 is probably the best business-centric OS ever written. The problem is that the ap

by kunai 13y ago

Why? The problem isn't with the phones. The Z10 and Q10 are fantastic and BB10 is probably the best business-centric OS ever written. The problem is that the applications are just not there, and that people associate BlackBerry with reboots, battery pulls, and outdated, clunky software, even though that's not the case. It's an image problem, not a phone problem. They can't market like Apple used to. If they could, they would get more sales, but their marketing is just pitiful.

dkrich 13y ago
I'm sure that's true but I also think there was an inflection point where people who had Blackberry's didn't have a better option right as Apple and Samsung were coming out with much more complete phones (great hardware, software, and robust app stores). A lot of these people switched over to Apple/Android and never went back. Now it is just a question of Apple or Android and Blackberry doesn't even enter the picture. I had a Blackberry Tour that I got in 2009 and had until 2011. By the time the contract was up a key was missing and the software was archaic compared to what was on the market. From that time forward I had no interest in ever going back. I think the same thing could be largely said about Dell. They didn't care about quality until competitors came along and ate their lunch. Now they are trying to reinvent themselves and claim back lost market share which is just a very, very difficult thing to do.
Liuser 13y ago
To add on, it does not help that BlackBerry makes the application submission process difficult. I submit and update our 30+ mobile applications on Apple, Google Play, Amazon and BlackBerry. No experience with Windows yet. However, compared to those listed stores that I have experience with, BlackBerry is my least favorite. I use the same binary build that I submit with ease for Google and Amazon, but BlackBerry tends to deny our application every once in awhile. Just figuring out how to navigate the application web portal to figure out why it was denied is a challenge. Why is it so hard to wrap the "Denied" text with a direct link to the reason as to why it was denied? Instead I need to crawl the page to find the reason. Another trouble that comes to mind more recently is that they added some sort of additional min-os requirement for a config/manifest file with a cryptic error message that needed resolving before the binary was allowed to be submitted. I would have thought it would be far easier to get apps through BlackBerry since they want more apps for their devices. Instead, I personally find getting apps for BB discouraging. Windows in the same space even approached and offered to pay us to develop an app for their store.
pinaceae 13y ago
"best business-centric OS" and there it is. same idiocy as MS. it's either user-centric or it isn't. BB catered to "business", but that meant IT. the users, managers, switched privately to iPhones. then demanded them from IT. boom, headshot. BYOD is what kills "business-centric". BB realized that, tried to position BBM as a user centric thing. too late. and schizo, as the playbook slogan "amateur hour is over" showed.
- mrtron 13y ago
  It used to be business-centric was enough. Now user-centric is coming fast and hard to the business market.
skylan_q 13y ago
It doesn't matter if their flagship phone that's out today is better than any mobile device that comes out in the next ten years. The customer has a grudge against them and decided they're losers. I could only image how much people would be for cancer if BB came out with a cure.
- corresation 13y ago
  Or maybe it just isn't better? Or maybe it isn't better enough for people to endure the complete lack of platform ecosystem. Ecosystem is everything. Android overcame that (remember when few of the top tier apps or services like Netflix were available on Android?) largely via the pull of Google services, getting enough inertia that the apps came. Blackberry...it wasn't and isn't going to happen. It just isn't worth it for makers. Blackberry can't just make a device that is as good as the competitors, it has to be significantly better. They didn't do that.
  - skylan_q 13y ago
    I didn't say it is better. I said it doesn't matter if it's leaps and bounds better. Everyone hates them worse than The Devil and there's nothing that can be done about it regardless of ecosystem and devices. People just aren't willing to even peek, nevermind even giving it a shot.
  - zmmmmm 13y ago
    Android started succeeding before it had an ecosystem. Establishing a viable app ecosystem actually took a long time. The problem for RIM, Nokia, Microsoft and others is simple really: they fail to align their business interests with all the other stakeholders in the market. Explosive growth like Android's comes when you get a sudden synergy of different stakeholders whose interests all align. It's not one thing. * Customers want more choice in phone (bigger screens, different styles, lower cost, etc.) * Carriers need an answer to the iPhone. Something where they retain some tiny piece of control * OEMs desperately need an answer to the iPhone * Developers want something more open, with more control and less barriers * Media distributors want some other channel than Apple / iTunes Basically, Android was a win-win-win-win for Google, carriers, developers, OEMs and customers, and it came at just the right time when all these needs were urgent. The common theme you see in all these other players is that they are not open, offer less choice, and they are trying to force others to cede control (license our software, no you can't have the source, no you can't customize it, etc).
contextual 13y ago
You nailed it. You managed to perfectly articulate what I couldn't. The BlackBerry OS is fantastic, but people aren't willing to try it. I hope the OS survives even if the company doesn't.

by kunai 13y ago

dkrich 13y ago

I'm sure that's true but I also think there was an inflection point where people who had Blackberry's didn't have a better option right as Apple and Samsung were coming out with much more complete phones (great hardware, software, and robust app stores). A lot of these people switched over to Apple/Android and never went back. Now it is just a question of Apple or Android and Blackberry doesn't even enter the picture. I had a Blackberry Tour that I got in 2009 and had until 2011. By the time the contract was up a key was missing and the software was archaic compared to what was on the market. From that time forward I had no interest in ever going back. I think the same thing could be largely said about Dell. They didn't care about quality until competitors came along and ate their lunch. Now they are trying to reinvent themselves and claim back lost market share which is just a very, very difficult thing to do.

Liuser 13y ago

To add on, it does not help that BlackBerry makes the application submission process difficult. I submit and update our 30+ mobile applications on Apple, Google Play, Amazon and BlackBerry. No experience with Windows yet. However, compared to those listed stores that I have experience with, BlackBerry is my least favorite. I use the same binary build that I submit with ease for Google and Amazon, but BlackBerry tends to deny our application every once in awhile. Just figuring out how to navigate the application web portal to figure out why it was denied is a challenge. Why is it so hard to wrap the "Denied" text with a direct link to the reason as to why it was denied? Instead I need to crawl the page to find the reason. Another trouble that comes to mind more recently is that they added some sort of additional min-os requirement for a config/manifest file with a cryptic error message that needed resolving before the binary was allowed to be submitted. I would have thought it would be far easier to get apps through BlackBerry since they want more apps for their devices. Instead, I personally find getting apps for BB discouraging. Windows in the same space even approached and offered to pay us to develop an app for their store.

pinaceae 13y ago

"best business-centric OS" and there it is. same idiocy as MS. it's either user-centric or it isn't. BB catered to "business", but that meant IT. the users, managers, switched privately to iPhones. then demanded them from IT. boom, headshot. BYOD is what kills "business-centric". BB realized that, tried to position BBM as a user centric thing. too late. and schizo, as the playbook slogan "amateur hour is over" showed.

mrtron 13y ago
It used to be business-centric was enough. Now user-centric is coming fast and hard to the business market.

skylan_q 13y ago

It doesn't matter if their flagship phone that's out today is better than any mobile device that comes out in the next ten years. The customer has a grudge against them and decided they're losers. I could only image how much people would be for cancer if BB came out with a cure.

corresation 13y ago
Or maybe it just isn't better? Or maybe it isn't better enough for people to endure the complete lack of platform ecosystem. Ecosystem is everything. Android overcame that (remember when few of the top tier apps or services like Netflix were available on Android?) largely via the pull of Google services, getting enough inertia that the apps came. Blackberry...it wasn't and isn't going to happen. It just isn't worth it for makers. Blackberry can't just make a device that is as good as the competitors, it has to be significantly better. They didn't do that.
- skylan_q 13y ago
  I didn't say it is better. I said it doesn't matter if it's leaps and bounds better. Everyone hates them worse than The Devil and there's nothing that can be done about it regardless of ecosystem and devices. People just aren't willing to even peek, nevermind even giving it a shot.
- zmmmmm 13y ago
  Android started succeeding before it had an ecosystem. Establishing a viable app ecosystem actually took a long time. The problem for RIM, Nokia, Microsoft and others is simple really: they fail to align their business interests with all the other stakeholders in the market. Explosive growth like Android's comes when you get a sudden synergy of different stakeholders whose interests all align. It's not one thing. * Customers want more choice in phone (bigger screens, different styles, lower cost, etc.) * Carriers need an answer to the iPhone. Something where they retain some tiny piece of control * OEMs desperately need an answer to the iPhone * Developers want something more open, with more control and less barriers * Media distributors want some other channel than Apple / iTunes Basically, Android was a win-win-win-win for Google, carriers, developers, OEMs and customers, and it came at just the right time when all these needs were urgent. The common theme you see in all these other players is that they are not open, offer less choice, and they are trying to force others to cede control (license our software, no you can't have the source, no you can't customize it, etc).

contextual 13y ago

You nailed it. You managed to perfectly articulate what I couldn't. The BlackBerry OS is fantastic, but people aren't willing to try it. I hope the OS survives even if the company doesn't.