4 ms·

After working Solaris and AIX for years, I still prefer BSD's userland to Linux's, but Linux's overwhelming HW support eventually won me over. Would anyone else

by lbenes 13y ago

After working Solaris and AIX for years, I still prefer BSD's userland to Linux's, but Linux's overwhelming HW support eventually won me over. Would anyone else here be interested in a distro with a Linux kernel with FreeBSD's userland? I've experimented with Starch Linux and MirOS, but both are pre-alpha.

chubot 13y ago
What's better about the FreeBSD userland? Are you talking about the shell tools like coreutils/diffutils/etc., or more about daemons like DNS/mail/etc.? I am actually thinking of doing the opposite: using GNU user land tools (coreutils etc.) with the FreeBSD kernel. I know there are some projects already in this direction -- Debian/BSD, Arch/BSD, and I think Gentoo has some relation to BSD. Reason: I want some BSD kernel features but don't want to waste time porting shell scripts and so forth.
- GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
  > What's better about the FreeBSD userland? For one example, take networking tasks: Task / BSD / Linux set ip / ifconfig / ifconfig or now "ip" which is confusing wifi / ifconfig / iwconfig speed / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool duplex / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool vlan / ifconfig / vlan wol / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool bridge / ifconfig / brctl link aggregation / ifconfig / flags while loading module OR use distro network config scripts and restart all networking or reboot server Want find out which nic is occupying ethX perhaps for tuning or scripting etc? Linux = complicated, by distro/version FreeBSD = nic by device eg em0
  - ajross 13y ago
    Most of your list is just the fact that FreeBSD has a giant ifconfig binary instead of separate tools for different features. That's mostly a taste issue. Certainly dumping everything in the same tool is no less "confusing". I just googled the FreeBSD man page for ifconfig -- yikes! The last bit is unfair. Yes, Linux distros have recently diverged on network device naming. But that's for a good reason: the old scheme wasn't robust against probe order, the new systemd one is, and FreeBSD's isn't either. The systemd naming (while ugly) is better, period. That's a feature for Linux, not a confusing problem with its userland.
    - mitchty 13y ago
      giant? Freebsd 9.1 RELEASE: 260k /sbin/ifconfig My Arch box: 76K /usr/bin/ifconfig I have to use linux for work, but he's right, keeping everything in ifconfig is much more close to the old school "unix" way than "lets play 20 commands" that seems to be present in most linux mindsets.
      - ajross 13y ago
        This may be the first time I've every heard the "old school unix way" defined as (heh) "packing all related functionality into one command". But use what you like. Just don't pretend that it's anything other than taste.
        mitchty 13y ago
        Its more keeping networking related things for interfaces in the InterFaceCONFIG command seems to be a more "one tool for the same thing" in my mind.
        GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
        > I admit I'm chuckling a little about the idea of udev not being "needed". If you're calling my tastes simple then guilty as charged.
      - oscargrouch 13y ago
        old school? what about git? > git pull > git push > git clone or would you prefer a binary for each command: > git_pull > git_clone > git_push now, what really looks old school to you?
        mitchty 13y ago
        Its one command with subcommands for each sub function. What you're contorting is more akin to: ifconfig_wireless ifconfig_vlan ifconfig_foo Bit of a reach there.
    - GalacticDomin8r 13y ago

by lbenes 13y ago

chubot 13y ago

What's better about the FreeBSD userland? Are you talking about the shell tools like coreutils/diffutils/etc., or more about daemons like DNS/mail/etc.? I am actually thinking of doing the opposite: using GNU user land tools (coreutils etc.) with the FreeBSD kernel. I know there are some projects already in this direction -- Debian/BSD, Arch/BSD, and I think Gentoo has some relation to BSD. Reason: I want some BSD kernel features but don't want to waste time porting shell scripts and so forth.

GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
> What's better about the FreeBSD userland? For one example, take networking tasks: Task / BSD / Linux set ip / ifconfig / ifconfig or now "ip" which is confusing wifi / ifconfig / iwconfig speed / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool duplex / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool vlan / ifconfig / vlan wol / ifconfig / miitool or ethtool bridge / ifconfig / brctl link aggregation / ifconfig / flags while loading module OR use distro network config scripts and restart all networking or reboot server Want find out which nic is occupying ethX perhaps for tuning or scripting etc? Linux = complicated, by distro/version FreeBSD = nic by device eg em0
- ajross 13y ago
  Most of your list is just the fact that FreeBSD has a giant ifconfig binary instead of separate tools for different features. That's mostly a taste issue. Certainly dumping everything in the same tool is no less "confusing". I just googled the FreeBSD man page for ifconfig -- yikes! The last bit is unfair. Yes, Linux distros have recently diverged on network device naming. But that's for a good reason: the old scheme wasn't robust against probe order, the new systemd one is, and FreeBSD's isn't either. The systemd naming (while ugly) is better, period. That's a feature for Linux, not a confusing problem with its userland.
  - mitchty 13y ago
    giant? Freebsd 9.1 RELEASE: 260k /sbin/ifconfig My Arch box: 76K /usr/bin/ifconfig I have to use linux for work, but he's right, keeping everything in ifconfig is much more close to the old school "unix" way than "lets play 20 commands" that seems to be present in most linux mindsets.
    - ajross 13y ago
      This may be the first time I've every heard the "old school unix way" defined as (heh) "packing all related functionality into one command". But use what you like. Just don't pretend that it's anything other than taste.
      - mitchty 13y ago
        Its more keeping networking related things for interfaces in the InterFaceCONFIG command seems to be a more "one tool for the same thing" in my mind.
      - GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
        > I admit I'm chuckling a little about the idea of udev not being "needed". If you're calling my tastes simple then guilty as charged.
    - oscargrouch 13y ago
      old school? what about git? > git pull > git push > git clone or would you prefer a binary for each command: > git_pull > git_clone > git_push now, what really looks old school to you?
      - mitchty 13y ago
        Its one command with subcommands for each sub function. What you're contorting is more akin to: ifconfig_wireless ifconfig_vlan ifconfig_foo Bit of a reach there.
  - GalacticDomin8r 13y ago