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There were a few points that the article didn't bring up. I was surprised that they didn't discuss the speculative value of bitcoins. There's no way that the va

by hooande 13y ago

There were a few points that the article didn't bring up. I was surprised that they didn't discuss the speculative value of bitcoins. There's no way that the value of a dollar in your pocket will suddenly double, but the value of a bitcoin has and will again. Obviously volatility isn't all fun...would you want your salary paid in bitcions? In the current market you might actually come out ahead over the next few years. The second thing is that these bitcoin payment systems only work because they dodge the minimum wage. There are a lot of things that homeless people could do if it was legal to pay $.60/day. The minimum wage does a lot of good, but the people in this article didn't seem to mind the situation. I think it's because a lot of people don't think of working online as "real work" and are ok with low paying tasks. All in all this article was a feel good hit. Bitcoin allows homeless people to avoid the shame of begging and the risk of robbery. They receive support from their community to earn legitimate money by doing real work. Of course fake youtube views and button pushing aren't very beneficial to society, but I think there will be more useful work for them and others in the near future. A functioning human brain is a very rare thing in the universe. The way we get ahead is by utilizing everyone of them that we can find. We often write homeless people off as a drain on society, but there's something to be said for everybody pitching in, even if just a little bit.

VMG 13y ago
The minimum wage does a lot of good Interesting you say then when you can clearly see that actually hurts those people.
- rubikscube 13y ago
  Yep. All in all, minimum wage is a feel good hit. :)
- kaonashi 13y ago
  It's not the minimum wage that hurts those people, but a lack of aggregate demand.
  - sixtypoundhound 13y ago
    Exactly, basically they are being paid to be spammers... [arguably the lowest-value task in the ecosystem]
- danielweber 13y ago
  Policies can have both good effects and bad effects at the same time.
- crazypyro 13y ago
  Its almost like it both has advantages and disadvantages... How crazy...
  - VMG 13y ago
    You're right, I didn't consider employers of illegal workers and the automation industry.
JonSkeptic 13y ago
>there's something to be said for everybody pitching in, even if just a little bit. I'm not sure how clicking links on youtube could ever, in any reality or worldview, be considered "pitching in" in any significant way. Bitcoin may be a great way for homeless people to make money, and it may have many benefits over carrying cash or having to wait on a pay check. All of that is good. But to say that clicking youtube links contributes any value to society (or really anything except youtube's advertising revenue) is outright ridiculous.
ceejayoz 13y ago
> There's no way that the value of a dollar in your pocket will suddenly double, but the value of a bitcoin has and will again. It might again.
lifeformed 13y ago
I wonder if Amazon's Mechanical Turk pays in Bitcoins? That seems like a better choice than watching YouTube vids. You could earn much more than 60 cents a day.
- uberstuber 13y ago
  They don't
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I love the idea behind Mechanical Turk, but last time I tried to use it I found the barriers too high to make it worthwhile (considering the pay). The good tasks had long qualifying tests, and the market was absolutely flooded with low quality tasks so picking a task became a chore in itself.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "Bitcoin allows homeless people to avoid the shame of begging" With a choice between pride + 60¢ per day or $10-20 per day from begging why wouldn't you choose the latter? To be able to afford laptops, smartphones, cigarettes etc. these men must be getting money from somewhere other than bitcoin. Also: "he decided to live on the street for a while" makes me think he probably has some money in savings that he is able to make use of. That would explain why he has a smartphone (and presumably cell plan if he's able to use the phone). This is a feel good article but lets be honest: The vast majority of homeless people don't have laptops or smartphones. They don't choose to be homeless like this man did. The article is examining a few of outliers. Bitcoin isn't going to help most homeless people.
- matthewwiese 13y ago
  >> With a choice between pride + 60¢ per day or $10-20 per day from begging why wouldn't you choose the latter? The article mentioned that it reduces the likelihood of robbery, but to put it more simply, they have less of a chance of being mugged. Panning for donations is quite obviously easier, but makes you fall victim as a potential mark, labeling yourself homeless is like shouting, "I have no dedicated protection I can rely on, won't be taken seriously by police, and likely don't have anyone who worries about me." >> To be able to afford laptops, smartphones, cigarettes etc. these men must be getting money from somewhere other than bitcoin. The subject of the article lost his jobs and subsequently his housing, the laptop and smartphone are most likely relics from before he was homeless. The cigarettes are a common theme I have seen among homeless, not just these guys; sometimes they don't even buy them, but nab a still lit cigarette a passerby tossed on the ground. >> Also: "he decided to live on the street for a while" makes me think he probably has some money in savings that he is able to make use of The article reads exactly as this: "After a few months, he got back under a roof, but that didn’t last, so he decided to live on the street for a while, rather than yo-yoing between home and homelessness." The last part of the segment where he says we wishes to avoid yo-yoing between homes is because he does not want the stress of having a place to stay, and then finding himself without, occurring over and over. It is possible he has a savings account that he is storing cash in to get off the streets, but your comment is not based on fact so that may not be true. >> This is a feel good article but lets be honest: The vast majority of homeless people don't have laptops or smartphones. [...] Bitcoin isn't going to help most homeless people. You're right, the majority don't, but it's purpose wasn't as a solution to the problem of homelessness, but instead an exposition, a case study if you will, where Bitcoins have proven to be beneficial.
cbr 13y ago
value of a bitcoin has and will [double] again If this were certain it would have already happened.
spyder 13y ago
The volatility of bitcoin isn't a big problem for these homeless guys because they probably spend it the same day when they receive it, it's more of a problem for the hoarders. And if the price of bitcoin changes too much then probably the "money making" services adjust they prices accordingly so the next day the homeless receives the same dollar value (in bitcoins) than before.

by hooande 13y ago

VMG 13y ago

The minimum wage does a lot of good Interesting you say then when you can clearly see that actually hurts those people.

rubikscube 13y ago
Yep. All in all, minimum wage is a feel good hit. :)
kaonashi 13y ago
It's not the minimum wage that hurts those people, but a lack of aggregate demand.
- sixtypoundhound 13y ago
  Exactly, basically they are being paid to be spammers... [arguably the lowest-value task in the ecosystem]
danielweber 13y ago
Policies can have both good effects and bad effects at the same time.
crazypyro 13y ago
Its almost like it both has advantages and disadvantages... How crazy...
- VMG 13y ago
  You're right, I didn't consider employers of illegal workers and the automation industry.

JonSkeptic 13y ago

>there's something to be said for everybody pitching in, even if just a little bit. I'm not sure how clicking links on youtube could ever, in any reality or worldview, be considered "pitching in" in any significant way. Bitcoin may be a great way for homeless people to make money, and it may have many benefits over carrying cash or having to wait on a pay check. All of that is good. But to say that clicking youtube links contributes any value to society (or really anything except youtube's advertising revenue) is outright ridiculous.

ceejayoz 13y ago

> There's no way that the value of a dollar in your pocket will suddenly double, but the value of a bitcoin has and will again. It might again.

lifeformed 13y ago

I wonder if Amazon's Mechanical Turk pays in Bitcoins? That seems like a better choice than watching YouTube vids. You could earn much more than 60 cents a day.

uberstuber 13y ago
They don't
sliverstorm 13y ago
I love the idea behind Mechanical Turk, but last time I tried to use it I found the barriers too high to make it worthwhile (considering the pay). The good tasks had long qualifying tests, and the market was absolutely flooded with low quality tasks so picking a task became a chore in itself.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

>> "Bitcoin allows homeless people to avoid the shame of begging" With a choice between pride + 60¢ per day or $10-20 per day from begging why wouldn't you choose the latter? To be able to afford laptops, smartphones, cigarettes etc. these men must be getting money from somewhere other than bitcoin. Also: "he decided to live on the street for a while" makes me think he probably has some money in savings that he is able to make use of. That would explain why he has a smartphone (and presumably cell plan if he's able to use the phone). This is a feel good article but lets be honest: The vast majority of homeless people don't have laptops or smartphones. They don't choose to be homeless like this man did. The article is examining a few of outliers. Bitcoin isn't going to help most homeless people.

matthewwiese 13y ago
>> With a choice between pride + 60¢ per day or $10-20 per day from begging why wouldn't you choose the latter? The article mentioned that it reduces the likelihood of robbery, but to put it more simply, they have less of a chance of being mugged. Panning for donations is quite obviously easier, but makes you fall victim as a potential mark, labeling yourself homeless is like shouting, "I have no dedicated protection I can rely on, won't be taken seriously by police, and likely don't have anyone who worries about me." >> To be able to afford laptops, smartphones, cigarettes etc. these men must be getting money from somewhere other than bitcoin. The subject of the article lost his jobs and subsequently his housing, the laptop and smartphone are most likely relics from before he was homeless. The cigarettes are a common theme I have seen among homeless, not just these guys; sometimes they don't even buy them, but nab a still lit cigarette a passerby tossed on the ground. >> Also: "he decided to live on the street for a while" makes me think he probably has some money in savings that he is able to make use of The article reads exactly as this: "After a few months, he got back under a roof, but that didn’t last, so he decided to live on the street for a while, rather than yo-yoing between home and homelessness." The last part of the segment where he says we wishes to avoid yo-yoing between homes is because he does not want the stress of having a place to stay, and then finding himself without, occurring over and over. It is possible he has a savings account that he is storing cash in to get off the streets, but your comment is not based on fact so that may not be true. >> This is a feel good article but lets be honest: The vast majority of homeless people don't have laptops or smartphones. [...] Bitcoin isn't going to help most homeless people. You're right, the majority don't, but it's purpose wasn't as a solution to the problem of homelessness, but instead an exposition, a case study if you will, where Bitcoins have proven to be beneficial.

cbr 13y ago

value of a bitcoin has and will [double] again If this were certain it would have already happened.

spyder 13y ago

The volatility of bitcoin isn't a big problem for these homeless guys because they probably spend it the same day when they receive it, it's more of a problem for the hoarders. And if the price of bitcoin changes too much then probably the "money making" services adjust they prices accordingly so the next day the homeless receives the same dollar value (in bitcoins) than before.