7 ms·

What stood out for me from this article wasn't the homework load, which only seems slightly more than what I remember from my own youth, but rather that: 1) a

by acabal 13y ago

What stood out for me from this article wasn't the homework load, which only seems slightly more than what I remember from my own youth, but rather that: 1) a teacher can accuse a parent of "cyberbullying" for an email sent in purported confidentiality to others, and that the claim can be taken seriously. Obviously I didn't read the email, but the author seems well-read and reasonable, so I'm inclined to conjecture that whatever he sent wasn't outrageous. If I as a parent were "called in to the vice principal's office" and accused of cyberbullying a teacher, I'd laugh in their face. Is this teacher teaching middle school, or in middle school? 2) that the parent is having constant meetings with school officials, and seemingly-frequent interaction with other parents via email. Granted in my days (mid-90's or so) email wasn't a big thing, but my parents typically took the hands-off stand of "did the teacher say so? then do it", plus the occasional PTA meeting. (They did help when asked, but I can probably count all the face-to-face meetings they had with school faculty on one hand). And that's a stance I can very much appreciate. I don't know what parent-teacher relationships are like today, but it sure sounds like the teachers are hearing almost as much from the parents as they are from the students. Which isn't to say the system can't be improved. But honestly I remember nearly as much homework from my days, and those points stuck out more to me as a sign of the times.

dylangs1030 13y ago
Totally agree, especially with your second point. Both my parents are career educators (teachers, counselors and now professors). They personally tell me about how "helicopter parenting" has increased in the time since they've gotten their degrees up to now. Parents are getting more and more involved (read: obsessive) about their childrens' education, sometimes to the detriment of the school process. Very often they'll blame teachers when their kids don't do well in class (not necessarily incorrect). My mother works in the inner city - parents there tend to be ambivalent about their childrens' progress unless they are relatively affluent, from what I've seen. On the other hand, my father works in a suburban private school, and the parents there push back much more often, especially when they aren't right. I can't say whether or not it's good or bad, but the climate of education in America has shifted from one of parents surrendering their kids and trusting the teachers to one of parents questioning the teachers when kids don't do well. Very curious.
- girvo 13y ago
  > Very often they'll blame teachers when their kids don't do well in class > (not necessarily incorrect) That's not a new phenomenon, imo, but it's still a pertinent one. Parents being involved in their kids schooling isn't inherently bad, but it can be taken too far. Just like the kids have limited time to be able to handle 5 hours of homework a night (!), teachers have limited time to handle every parent. That said, the fact it was done a lot through email is kinda neat, and would possibly make parent-teacher interactions scale better?
- ronaldx 13y ago
  As a teacher, I far prefer to have parents who are involved in their kids' education, than the parents who are not involved. There's a correlation between affluence and parent involvement, yes, but there's a stronger correlation between parent involvement and pupil engagement/learning. Edited to add: Helicopter parenting is often a symptom of poor communication between the school and the parent - better and happier personal communication tends to resolve tension.
girvo 13y ago
Oh gosh, I would have been absolutely ropeable if the principal had accused me of "cyber-bullying" in that manner. That is entirely, utterly, disgustingly bullshit. And it doesn't surprise me. Surely it's the bias that is put forward by news media, but the stories that I hear of the American education system scares the shit out of me -- and I went to school in Queensland (which is terrible in and of itself)! Zero-tolerance, "5 hours of homework a night isn't doing any harm"... what the hell. Who comes up with this shit :/
- madaxe 13y ago
  I had the benefit of attending the British, German, and American school systems. Schooling in America has little to do with education, and much to do with indoctrination. Pretty much the only thing I learned was the pledge of allegiance - over which I repeatedly got suspended, as I refused to recite it along with the rest of the class, every morning. Everything else they "taught" was years behind what I'd been learning elsewhere, and none of it was teaching - it was all just OBEY. I used to kick like a mule whenever they tried to teach us something factually incorrect by rote - and got in trouble for it. THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
  - GotAnyMegadeth 13y ago
    You had to recite a pledge of allegiance? Wow. Sounds like North Korea.
    - aestra 13y ago
      The Pledge of Allegiance is recited every morning at almost every school in the United States. It is taught to children much too young to understand what it means. Here are the current words: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It is said facing the flag, with your right hand over your heart. Originally it was said while saluting the flag, however, it was replaced with the hand over heart gesture during WWII, as it was similar to the Nazi salute. Congressional sessions also open with the recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. By the way, the words "under God" where only added on June 14, 1954. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 13y ago
The "cyber-bullying" thing seemed janky when I read it. We don't know exactly what he wrote to the other parents, or the tone of the conversation they had. We know that one parent was alarmed enough by the conversation to (apparently) forward it to the school administration. It may have been nastier than the author is crediting it for.
- Schwolop 13y ago
  I suspect from the context that the journalist's email(s) was/were fine but that replies from other parents may have been less appropriate.
- chiph 13y ago
  This is the same teacher who gave his child a C on an assignment because they didn't put their answers in a separate column. Granted, we only have one side of the conversations, but I wouldn't rule out the chance of the teacher being petty & vindictive.
- greenyoda 13y ago
  "We know that one parent was alarmed enough by the conversation to (apparently) forward it to the school administration.' There is no evidence that the parent who forwarded the e-mail to the teacher (not the school administration; apparently the teacher did that) was "alarmed" by it. They merely disagreed with it. Here's the quote from the article: "Back in California, when I raised the issue of too much homework on that e‑mail chain, about half the parents were pleased that someone had brought this up, and many had already spoken to the math teacher about it. Others were eager to approach school officials. But at least one parent didn’t agree, and forwarded the whole exchange to the teacher in question."
scotty79 13y ago
Especially funny is criterion that makes it cyberbullying: > the teacher felt threatened Am I supposed not to sneeze if the person is afraid of loud noises? Am I supposed to say he's doing great job (if he's not) just because he feels insecure there and feels threatened by any critique? They only reason they were able to pull this of with straight face is because "cyber" becomes to mean "sinister"
- tedunangst 13y ago
  "Reasonable person" standard.
  - scotty79 13y ago
    Doesn't seem to be applied here.
mathattack 13y ago
Times have changed. Every kid today is special. :-) My observation is in a hyper-competitive city like NY, the parents do bad together against the teachers of administration if they feel slighted. There's a lot of jostling for position amongst parents, who each want someone else to air their concerns, because they don't want to seem like the problem parent.

by acabal 13y ago

dylangs1030 13y ago

Totally agree, especially with your second point. Both my parents are career educators (teachers, counselors and now professors). They personally tell me about how "helicopter parenting" has increased in the time since they've gotten their degrees up to now. Parents are getting more and more involved (read: obsessive) about their childrens' education, sometimes to the detriment of the school process. Very often they'll blame teachers when their kids don't do well in class (not necessarily incorrect). My mother works in the inner city - parents there tend to be ambivalent about their childrens' progress unless they are relatively affluent, from what I've seen. On the other hand, my father works in a suburban private school, and the parents there push back much more often, especially when they aren't right. I can't say whether or not it's good or bad, but the climate of education in America has shifted from one of parents surrendering their kids and trusting the teachers to one of parents questioning the teachers when kids don't do well. Very curious.

girvo 13y ago
> Very often they'll blame teachers when their kids don't do well in class > (not necessarily incorrect) That's not a new phenomenon, imo, but it's still a pertinent one. Parents being involved in their kids schooling isn't inherently bad, but it can be taken too far. Just like the kids have limited time to be able to handle 5 hours of homework a night (!), teachers have limited time to handle every parent. That said, the fact it was done a lot through email is kinda neat, and would possibly make parent-teacher interactions scale better?
ronaldx 13y ago
As a teacher, I far prefer to have parents who are involved in their kids' education, than the parents who are not involved. There's a correlation between affluence and parent involvement, yes, but there's a stronger correlation between parent involvement and pupil engagement/learning. Edited to add: Helicopter parenting is often a symptom of poor communication between the school and the parent - better and happier personal communication tends to resolve tension.

girvo 13y ago

Oh gosh, I would have been absolutely ropeable if the principal had accused me of "cyber-bullying" in that manner. That is entirely, utterly, disgustingly bullshit. And it doesn't surprise me. Surely it's the bias that is put forward by news media, but the stories that I hear of the American education system scares the shit out of me -- and I went to school in Queensland (which is terrible in and of itself)! Zero-tolerance, "5 hours of homework a night isn't doing any harm"... what the hell. Who comes up with this shit :/

madaxe 13y ago
I had the benefit of attending the British, German, and American school systems. Schooling in America has little to do with education, and much to do with indoctrination. Pretty much the only thing I learned was the pledge of allegiance - over which I repeatedly got suspended, as I refused to recite it along with the rest of the class, every morning. Everything else they "taught" was years behind what I'd been learning elsewhere, and none of it was teaching - it was all just OBEY. I used to kick like a mule whenever they tried to teach us something factually incorrect by rote - and got in trouble for it. THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
- GotAnyMegadeth 13y ago
  You had to recite a pledge of allegiance? Wow. Sounds like North Korea.
  - aestra 13y ago
    The Pledge of Allegiance is recited every morning at almost every school in the United States. It is taught to children much too young to understand what it means. Here are the current words: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It is said facing the flag, with your right hand over your heart. Originally it was said while saluting the flag, however, it was replaced with the hand over heart gesture during WWII, as it was similar to the Nazi salute. Congressional sessions also open with the recital of the Pledge of Allegiance. By the way, the words "under God" where only added on June 14, 1954. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 13y ago

The "cyber-bullying" thing seemed janky when I read it. We don't know exactly what he wrote to the other parents, or the tone of the conversation they had. We know that one parent was alarmed enough by the conversation to (apparently) forward it to the school administration. It may have been nastier than the author is crediting it for.

Schwolop 13y ago
I suspect from the context that the journalist's email(s) was/were fine but that replies from other parents may have been less appropriate.
chiph 13y ago
This is the same teacher who gave his child a C on an assignment because they didn't put their answers in a separate column. Granted, we only have one side of the conversations, but I wouldn't rule out the chance of the teacher being petty & vindictive.
greenyoda 13y ago
"We know that one parent was alarmed enough by the conversation to (apparently) forward it to the school administration.' There is no evidence that the parent who forwarded the e-mail to the teacher (not the school administration; apparently the teacher did that) was "alarmed" by it. They merely disagreed with it. Here's the quote from the article: "Back in California, when I raised the issue of too much homework on that e‑mail chain, about half the parents were pleased that someone had brought this up, and many had already spoken to the math teacher about it. Others were eager to approach school officials. But at least one parent didn’t agree, and forwarded the whole exchange to the teacher in question."

scotty79 13y ago

Especially funny is criterion that makes it cyberbullying: > the teacher felt threatened Am I supposed not to sneeze if the person is afraid of loud noises? Am I supposed to say he's doing great job (if he's not) just because he feels insecure there and feels threatened by any critique? They only reason they were able to pull this of with straight face is because "cyber" becomes to mean "sinister"

tedunangst 13y ago
"Reasonable person" standard.
- scotty79 13y ago
  Doesn't seem to be applied here.

mathattack 13y ago

Times have changed. Every kid today is special. :-) My observation is in a hyper-competitive city like NY, the parents do bad together against the teachers of administration if they feel slighted. There's a lot of jostling for position amongst parents, who each want someone else to air their concerns, because they don't want to seem like the problem parent.