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This supposed "bike accident" happened when a driver violated the bicyclist's right of way by turning into her path. The driver may not have intended to kill an

This supposed "bike accident" happened when a driver violated the bicyclist's right of way by turning into her path. The driver may not have intended to kill anyone, but simply classifying this collision as an "accident" prematurely absolves the driver of any responsibility for killing a person through negligence.

cheald 13y ago
Not at all. Manslaughter is frequently a crime of negligence. Calling it an accident doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility.
zackbloom 13y ago
It's an accident in that no one intended to kill her. The driver can still be liable.
baddox 13y ago
It's pretty clear that "accident" in this context refers simply to a lack of intention. I don't think anyone is calling for the absolution of the driver's responsibility.
tzs 13y ago
Classifying it as an accident does not absolve the driver of responsibility.
Pinatubo 13y ago
You've also prematurely absolved the bicyclist of any responsibility for the collision. "It's a very blind curve and bicycles come flying around that corner, and right before the corner there's a turn on Elk Tree Road and sometimes things happen too fast," Lazarus said. "People are driving 45 miles per hour on the road and there's no place for a bicycle to go." http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...
- akgerber 13y ago
  The fact that drivers are regularly violating the speed limit[0] implies the bicyclist is responsible? [0]https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=...
  - Permit 13y ago
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/18/bicyclist-killed-after-colliding-with-minivan-in-san-mateo-mountains/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/18/bicyclist-killed... Definitely not. However, the woman in the audio clip points out that there is both a blindspot and the sun makes it doubly difficult to see people around that corner. We have no context of the situation on which to assign blame. I trust the police and witnesses involved will help sort things out. Whether or not we assign blame on Hacker News seems somewhat irrelevant.
  - cromwellian 13y ago
    How do you know the cyclist wasn't violating the speed limit for that blind turn? Use Street View to go north of the accident and simulate traveling around the turn that the cyclist would have been going, and imagine the cyclist was doing 35mph. There's very little advance notice if a car is already turning. At 35mph, a bicyclist would probably need at least 100ft to stop, if you've got your wits about you, you might be able to slow down enough to evade or run yourself off into a ditch on the side. This just looks like a dangerous intersection to drive on, let alone bike on.
  - Pinatubo 13y ago
    I think you've misunderstood that quote. The resident is saying that both bicyclists and motorists are going too fast around the blind curve. Here is the intersection in question, from the perspective of the van that was in the accident: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=... The van could have begun to make the left hand turn before the bicyclist even came around the corner.
gamblor956 13y ago
Based on other news accounts (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...) it appears that the "accident" truly was an accident. The car was making a legal left turn shortly before a blind curve. There was no way that the car--or the biker--could have seen each other. (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Road,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.377456,-122.261052&spn=0.007153,0.009645&sll=37.388265,-122.281308&sspn=0.014304,0.01929&oq=elk+tr,+Woodside,+CA&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=17 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Road,+Woodside,+CA&h...) This is apparently not an isolated incident, as other cyclists and motorcycles have had accidents on this street, due to its winding path and poor visibility.
- mikeyouse 13y ago
  It's not really a blind curve though; https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=Elk+Tree+Road%2C+Woodside%2C+CA&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-122.262569!3d37.377666!2m2!1f196.77!2f79.98!4f75!2m7!1e1!2m2!1suU8TVGExcqVlT-Ok5vJnXA!2e0!5m2!1suU8TVGExcqVlT-Ok5vJnXA!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d12680!2d-122.281308!3d37.388265!3m2!1i1024!2i768!4f13.1&fid=5 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=Elk+Tree+Road%2C+Wood... Bicyclists can do ~35mph on that stretch, which is about 50 feet per second. She was around the bend for at least 3 seconds before she impacted the van, plenty of time for the van to see her and for her to slow down or turn off if the van had turned before she came around the bend. More likely than not, she was already around the bend, nearly to the intersection when the driver turned. It's quite shady in that section, so it's possible the driver lost her in the shadows, or just wasn't paying close enough attention.
narrator 13y ago
Here's where the accident occurred: http://goo.gl/maps/6ROov http://goo.gl/maps/6ROov Apparently there have been accidents there before. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsul...
droopybuns 13y ago
Hacker News needs a filter for all bike related stories. Comments like yours are the intellectual equivalent of High Fructose Corn Syrup. I am so tired of the snobby biker community/high tech overlap in the venn diagram of the startup world. There is no value in this discussion and nothing but troll bait.

cheald 13y ago

Not at all. Manslaughter is frequently a crime of negligence. Calling it an accident doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility.

zackbloom 13y ago

It's an accident in that no one intended to kill her. The driver can still be liable.

baddox 13y ago

It's pretty clear that "accident" in this context refers simply to a lack of intention. I don't think anyone is calling for the absolution of the driver's responsibility.

tzs 13y ago

Classifying it as an accident does not absolve the driver of responsibility.

Pinatubo 13y ago

You've also prematurely absolved the bicyclist of any responsibility for the collision. "It's a very blind curve and bicycles come flying around that corner, and right before the corner there's a turn on Elk Tree Road and sometimes things happen too fast," Lazarus said. "People are driving 45 miles per hour on the road and there's no place for a bicycle to go." http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...

akgerber 13y ago
The fact that drivers are regularly violating the speed limit[0] implies the bicyclist is responsible? [0]https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=...
- Permit 13y ago
  http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/18/bicyclist-killed-after-colliding-with-minivan-in-san-mateo-mountains/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/09/18/bicyclist-killed... Definitely not. However, the woman in the audio clip points out that there is both a blindspot and the sun makes it doubly difficult to see people around that corner. We have no context of the situation on which to assign blame. I trust the police and witnesses involved will help sort things out. Whether or not we assign blame on Hacker News seems somewhat irrelevant.
- cromwellian 13y ago
  How do you know the cyclist wasn't violating the speed limit for that blind turn? Use Street View to go north of the accident and simulate traveling around the turn that the cyclist would have been going, and imagine the cyclist was doing 35mph. There's very little advance notice if a car is already turning. At 35mph, a bicyclist would probably need at least 100ft to stop, if you've got your wits about you, you might be able to slow down enough to evade or run yourself off into a ditch on the side. This just looks like a dangerous intersection to drive on, let alone bike on.
- Pinatubo 13y ago
  I think you've misunderstood that quote. The resident is saying that both bicyclists and motorists are going too fast around the blind curve. Here is the intersection in question, from the perspective of the van that was in the accident: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=... The van could have begun to make the left hand turn before the bicyclist even came around the corner.

gamblor956 13y ago

Based on other news accounts (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...) it appears that the "accident" truly was an accident. The car was making a legal left turn shortly before a blind curve. There was no way that the car--or the biker--could have seen each other. (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Road,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.377456,-122.261052&spn=0.007153,0.009645&sll=37.388265,-122.281308&sspn=0.014304,0.01929&oq=elk+tr,+Woodside,+CA&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=17 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Road,+Woodside,+CA&h...) This is apparently not an isolated incident, as other cyclists and motorcycles have had accidents on this street, due to its winding path and poor visibility.

mikeyouse 13y ago
It's not really a blind curve though; https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=Elk+Tree+Road%2C+Woodside%2C+CA&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-122.262569!3d37.377666!2m2!1f196.77!2f79.98!4f75!2m7!1e1!2m2!1suU8TVGExcqVlT-Ok5vJnXA!2e0!5m2!1suU8TVGExcqVlT-Ok5vJnXA!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d12680!2d-122.281308!3d37.388265!3m2!1i1024!2i768!4f13.1&fid=5 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=Elk+Tree+Road%2C+Wood... Bicyclists can do ~35mph on that stretch, which is about 50 feet per second. She was around the bend for at least 3 seconds before she impacted the van, plenty of time for the van to see her and for her to slow down or turn off if the van had turned before she came around the bend. More likely than not, she was already around the bend, nearly to the intersection when the driver turned. It's quite shady in that section, so it's possible the driver lost her in the shadows, or just wasn't paying close enough attention.

narrator 13y ago

Here's where the accident occurred: http://goo.gl/maps/6ROov http://goo.gl/maps/6ROov Apparently there have been accidents there before. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsul...

droopybuns 13y ago

Hacker News needs a filter for all bike related stories. Comments like yours are the intellectual equivalent of High Fructose Corn Syrup. I am so tired of the snobby biker community/high tech overlap in the venn diagram of the startup world. There is no value in this discussion and nothing but troll bait.