19 ms·

Former Amazon star exec killed in bike accident

159 points by jborden13 13y ago

mikeyouse 13y ago
Kara Swisher published a similar Obituary; http://allthingsd.com/20130919/tragedy-amazons-first-cfo-and-internet-pioneer-joy-covey-dies-in-bike-accident/ http://allthingsd.com/20130919/tragedy-amazons-first-cfo-and... Another very sad day.
donretag 13y ago
A few more related stories on a bikeforums.net thread http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/913789-Fatality-on-Skyline-(Hwy-35-in-Woodside)-today http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/913789-Fatality-on-... "A 50-year-old woman was riding her bicycle downhill on the northbound lane on Skyline when she collided with a minivan that was making a turn toward her lane."
- dasil003 13y ago
  Damn, I saw this very scenario happen right in front of me yesterday in London rush hour traffic at the bottom of Balham hill on CS7. Middle-aged woman turns right in front of a guy doing about 35mph on his road bike. He fishtails, catapults, and slides on asphalt broadsiding the car at probably 15mph. I was on a mountain bike so I fortunately had greater stopping power. Still, there was only about a 1 second difference between him standing up and walking away (which he did) and full speed T-bone. And this was on a London Cycle Superhighway during rush hour with dry pavement and perfect visibility. Up on Skyline Blvd it's way worse even when sunny because of the light shining through the redwoods.
- jackowayed 13y ago
  Wow. Ok, here's some details on the accident based on news stories linked there. First, background for people who don't know the area: So this is in Woodside, the hills just west of Palo Alto. It's a nice area where you get more space and nature than living in Menlo Park/PA/MV, at the cost of having a fairly slow drive to get anywhere. Skyline, the road she was on, is the main north-south way through that area. It's a one-lane-each-way, narrow-shoulder, trees-on-all-sides (leading to weird lighting at most hours) road that is fairly straight for that area, but still has some curves. I think the speed limit is 40mph. The stretch of Skyline she was on is a very popular bike route. Some people will bike a lot of Skyline, but that ~one mile stretch is especially popular. Old La Honda Rd is a narrow, windy road that is one of the most famous cycling climbs in the area; it's got good shade and is a very steady 7% grade for the whole 3.5 miles. It's intense. Go out on a weekend and you will run into other cyclists, usually many others. When you get to the top and want to loop back towards Palo Alto/etc, you basically have two options. One is to just go back down, but descending a road that steep and windy, especially given that there's basically always a cliff on one side, is pretty frightening. So I always take the other option, which is to take Skyline down to highway 84, the same direction and stretch of road she was doing. That always feels like the safe part of the descent to me--it's mostly straight, people drive slightly slower than on 84, and it's not as steep of a descent as 84. 84 is frightening because there still isn't a shoulder, there's some really steep sections, there's some tight switchbacks, and people drive 50 mph. But, sure enough, where her accident was on Skyline, there's a big blind curve, and not very far after it there's a tiny road (basically a driveway) off to the right. It sounds like as she came around that curve, a van that was headed the opposite direction on Skyline turned left in front of her into that small road, and she ended up hitting the van. Scary.
  - lectrick 13y ago
    A (draggable) picture is worth a thousand words in this case. https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=elk+tree+road%2C+Portola+Valley%2C+CA&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-122.262613!3d37.377577!2m2!1f124.05!2f69.8!4f75!2m4!1e1!2m2!1s1rosC8UJbie1yeMy8sxejw!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d10885!2d-122.3000564!3d37.4131644!3m2!1i1907!2i1319!4f13.1&fid=5 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=elk+tree+road%2C+Port...
akgerber 13y ago
This supposed "bike accident" happened when a driver violated the bicyclist's right of way by turning into her path. The driver may not have intended to kill anyone, but simply classifying this collision as an "accident" prematurely absolves the driver of any responsibility for killing a person through negligence.
- cheald 13y ago
  Not at all. Manslaughter is frequently a crime of negligence. Calling it an accident doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility.
- zackbloom 13y ago
  It's an accident in that no one intended to kill her. The driver can still be liable.
- baddox 13y ago
  It's pretty clear that "accident" in this context refers simply to a lack of intention. I don't think anyone is calling for the absolution of the driver's responsibility.
- tzs 13y ago
  Classifying it as an accident does not absolve the driver of responsibility.
- Pinatubo 13y ago
  You've also prematurely absolved the bicyclist of any responsibility for the collision. "It's a very blind curve and bicycles come flying around that corner, and right before the corner there's a turn on Elk Tree Road and sometimes things happen too fast," Lazarus said. "People are driving 45 miles per hour on the road and there's no place for a bicycle to go." http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...
  - akgerber 13y ago
    The fact that drivers are regularly violating the speed limit[0] implies the bicyclist is responsible? [0]https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=...
ronnier 13y ago
That's horrible. It hurts me to think about her family. I think people should really give it a second thought when riding bikes along side automobiles. It doesn't seem like the best decision one could make. It's really scary.
- runamok 13y ago
  I think drivers should be more aware and conscious that they are piloting a 2 ton or so vehicle. We all drive our vehicles next to everything from scooters to double tractor trailers. I have people turn in front of me in my car or motorcycle on a fairly regular basis because they are poorly trained and misjudge my speed. The driver sounds like they were fairly young and inexperienced. I drive slowly around that area because there are so many cyclists and I take my time passing them. Their safety and peace of mind is worthy of a few moments of my time.
  - georgemcbay 13y ago
    As someone who both bikes and drives, I think bikers could also be a lot more aware and conscious that they are piloting a vehicle with no protection around 2 ton or so vehicles. The burden of safety should be split equally regardless of whose vehicle is heavier. While I've been lucky enough not to see a full-on crash, I've seen a few situations where bikers were almost in very serious accidents here in San Diego where I felt the biker would have totally been at fault if the collision wasn't luckily averted.
    - enoch_r 13y ago
      When it comes to personal decisions, 100% of the responsibility lies with me. When I'm driving, 100% of the responsibility to avoid hitting a bicyclist lies with me; when I'm biking, 100% of the responsibility to avoid being hit by a car lies with me. The idea being that everyone else on the road is absolutely crazy, so my responsibility is just to be prepared for their insanity and act accordingly. I think this philosophy increases my likelihood of survival. On the other hand, when it comes to cultural and (to some extent) legal ideas about "responsibility," I do think that the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility" (thanks, Spiderman) is a pretty decent heuristic. Lots of people have no concept of their own vulnerability, and lots of people have no sense of their own power to do harm, but one will hurt me and the other hurts others. Plus, and maybe for that reason, I think it's a lot more difficult to forget vulnerability (it's obvious every time a car flies past 3 feet away) than it is to forget power--passing a bicyclist with a couple feet of room just doesn't feel scary to lots of drivers.
cromwellian 13y ago
If you look at the intersection of Elk Tree Road and Skyline on Street View you could see how this could happen. Turning left on Elk Tree (http://goo.gl/mBIpK3 http://goo.gl/mBIpK3) someone coming around that turn at high speed heading south would have little stopping distance if there was a car in their lane. Not really sure what the speed limit on Skyline is there, and we don't know how she died, if she broadsided the car, or swerved into oncoming traffic behind the other car. So there's a couple of scenarios: 1) driver sees cyclist and tries to turn left in front of her at too close of a distance, causing cyclist to collide with driver, or swerve into other traffic, or fall down 2) driver starts turn just as cyclist comes around corner, but for whatever reason, driver is taking too long (e.g. car that made left turn in front of it suddenly stops), cyclist does not have sufficient stopping distance, or may be exceeding speed limit. Cyclist evasive action leads to crash. In many of these freak accidents, the knee jerk reaction is to blame the person who is more in power (the person with the car), but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. It might be a bad intersection that is just waiting for this kinds of accidents of bad timing.
- DanBC 13y ago
  > It might be a bad intersection that is just waiting for this kinds of accidents of bad timing. Is there any kind of big-data-gathering programme looking at accident data to see where the accident black spots are?
  - fletchowns 13y ago
    I don't think that volume of data would be considered "big data". Semantics aside, municipalities regularly analyze these types of information in order to guide changes that make things safer.
    - danso 13y ago
      No. Do not assume that just because the data is being collected, that it it is actually being analyzed, and definitely don't assume that even if it were analyzed, that the political will needed to effect reform will act. http://blog.accursedware.com/nypd-crash-data-band-aid/ http://blog.accursedware.com/nypd-crash-data-band-aid/ In fact, it's not a given that it's being methodically collected in the first place.
larrys 13y ago
This is a tragedy of course but I always wonder when journalists repeat things like this: "Then she used her 173 IQ to pass California's high school-equivalency exam. At 19, she graduated from California State University at Fresno and took the CPA exam (scoring second best in the country that year). " While it would be possible to verify that someone graduated from CSU at 19 (you call them) in general I would imagine that there is no easy way to verify someone's IQ or that they were 2nd best in the country at the CPA exam. I would imagine that journalists repeat things like this blindly and they become the truth about people when stated as if fact. Of course journalists are generally going to repeat things that they are told but certain things are much harder to verify by any third party reading (as opposed to "graduated from Harvard" which could be disproved by anyone).
- theorique 13y ago
  You're right that there's a lot of mythology about IQ, but presumably a person could show documentation of such a thing - e.g. a score on a "real" IQ test administered by a professional qualified in psychometrics[1]. Same thing with a CPA exam - presumably, the professional organization keeps records of scores for some years and it would probably be possible to pull their file. (Similar to how you can contact a university registrar's office to verify a person's claim to a degree.) Keep in mind, I'm not saying that the journalist actually did their fact-checking to this level of persistence - just that they could. [1] e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Modern_tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Modern_t...
- tokenadult 13y ago
  For someone of that age (I am a little bit older), the test administered in childhood almost certainly would have been a Stanford-Binet L-M test, which was already obsolete by the time I took it. That test did have scores that went up to the low 180s, but those are not comparable to scores on current IQ tests. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification (a Wikipedia article with more current and more authoritative references than the other Wikipedia article already kindly shared here) for more details.
- freyr 13y ago
physcab 13y ago
I was just up there for the first time a couple weeks ago and I was surprised by how many bikers I saw. Its one of those streets where locals (in cars) just barrel down the hill bc they are so familiar, while bikers and runners love the area bc its beautiful and provides a challenging workout. Just a reminder that there needs to be a balance. This is really sad news.
Zigurd 13y ago
Automatic braking that is capable of detecting cyclists and pedestrians should be mandatory on cars.
- fletchowns 13y ago
  Why just on cars? Bike vs. pedestrian fatalities do exist.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    How many?
  - omni 13y ago
    Because a cyclist needs to do very specific things during an emergency brake to avoid being thrown over the handlebars, so an automatic braking system would probably injure / kill the cyclist.
    - pyoung 13y ago
      I would argue that with the right setup (sensors, gyros, on board computer), an automated system could do a much better job than the cyclist. My guess, is that most cyclists stay well under the 'thrown over' threshold when braking, which could be part of the reason some collisions occur (i.e. too little, too late sort of thing). An automated system could probably get you right up to that threshold, and then use gyros for stabilization (to balance the bike). The reason that this won't happen is because no one is going to install this on their bike (whereas most modern cars already have fairly sophisticated on board computers and sensor systems).
      - dasil003 13y ago
        The big thing you're missing is that the rider typically outweighs the bike by a factor of 5-10. Even with all this gear your proposing which would definitely weigh something significant (because ounces are significant in bike weight, and weight is the single most important performance metric for a bike), the physical action of the riders body is going to be the dominant effect of anything that happens. Furthermore, a bike is a lot more agile than a big hunk of steel plodding in a straight line. You can shoot through a tiny gap that a computer would not be able to detect you were aiming for. There is no way to have the necessary safety margin without being totally unusable in practice.
klochner 13y ago
Disclaimer: I'm not trying to find fault either way, I was just curious. Here's her ride log from Strava over the same segment a week ago (you'll need to log in to see details on the segment): http://www.strava.com/activities/81767720#1663862661 http://www.strava.com/activities/81767720#1663862661 And here's a screenshot - you can see her speed jump to 30mph just at the blind corner before Elk Tree road, and she accelerates past Elk Tree to 36mph: http://i.imgur.com/wd4sOjm.png http://i.imgur.com/wd4sOjm.png If she was going 30+ on a downhill (-6.5% grade), it's possible the car was already turning when she hit the corner and she was unable to decelerate, maybe the pavement was wet. But it is about 300ft, so I would expect her to be able to brake in time.
- enoch_r 13y ago
  The problem with this theory is that the speed limit on that road is 40. If she was traveling well under the speed limit but did not have time to stop for a turning car, then it seems to me that either a) the intersection is designed such that a vehicle traveling the speed limit will be unable to stop before colliding with a turning vehicle, or b) the driver turned after the bicyclist had turned the corner. Or, of course, a combination of the two--it may well be that the intersection is fairly dangerous for drivers as well (and some commenters have talked about previous accidents at the same intersection).
  - klochner 13y ago
    I kind of agree with you (see my edits), but it is harder to decelerate on a bike than in a car, especially going downhill - you run the risk of going over the handlebars.
    - jusben1369 13y ago
      In all fairness that depends a great deal on the skill of the rider too.
    - tomrod 13y ago
      I'm going to show my lack of cycling knowledge here, but I really don't understand what you're saying. Why wouldn't one just use the rear break and set their body, like when one rides a bus and has to stand?
sanskritabelt 13y ago
I drive on some of the roads leading up to Skyline nearly every day and ok, bicyclists have a legal right to the roads too, etc, but it is just exceedingly dangerous, especially when trying to pass a bike going uphill. There's no bike lane, or shoulder, and most bikers will refuse to use what few turnouts there are.
leeskye 13y ago
Regardless of who's fault it was, it's a terrible tragedy and a sad loss (especially for her little one). Prayers for her family and her loved ones. RIP Joy Covey.
Zigurd 13y ago
I really dislike legalistic arguments about how cyclists should be riding. If there are road bikers in the hills, they are not going to ride their brakes all the way down a long downhill. I live where there are road bikers, longboarders, and horse riders on the roads. Car drivers have a responsibility to accommodate these people. There are plenty of ways to drive that are technically legal but completely dickish and that needlessly reduce the margin of safety for more vulnerable traffic.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Bicyclists are people, they make mistakes and they make unwise and dangerous decisions. The same is true of automobile drivers, who are also people. Though, of course, we've become inured to the mistakes and bad decisions of automobile drivers. Nevertheless, bad drivers are far more responsible for loss of life (their own and others) than bad cyclists.
- ojbyrne 13y ago
  As a cyclist, I disagree. Ultimately you're the one in charge of your own safety, and if you're going 30+ mph in conditions that have poor visibility (skyline has a lot of shadows), and not being defensive, you're at fault. "Share the road" goes in both directions.
  - mrampton 13y ago
    How is 30+ mph on Skyline considered unsafe? Skyline is def. more dangerous as speed decreases -- only more so within the shadows (where the likelihood of being hit by a car driving in the same direction is much higher). You speak as though you've never known someone to be involved in an accident that was outside their power to control. Driving/riding defensively does not mean you will manage to avoid all hazards.
    - ojbyrne 13y ago
      I've been involved in at least two accidents that were out of my control, one involving a car, and it was obvious in both cases that going slower saved my ass. I can see that below a certain speed you get more wobbly, but she seems to have been going in excess of 30 mph, at which point your own reaction time becomes the biggest issue.
pkulak 13y ago
If I die on a road I hope it's in a car. At least that way I won't have a whole hoard of internet forensic scientists desperately trying to figure out how it was all my fault.
- justin66 13y ago
  Unless you do it in a sports car, or your blood alcohol content is anything other than zero...
  - klochner 13y ago
    ... or you broadside a minivan
- Goladus 13y ago
  Not me. I wouldn't want to deprive internet snarkers such a great opportunity to criticize straw men.
- hyperbovine 13y ago
  You'll be dead...
- adharmad 13y ago
  One can only hope :) Sunil Tripathi had no clue that an unrelated incident would turn a hoard of rabid redditians on his scent.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  Maybe this new modern cars will already upload telemetry data to the cloud, and maybe later there will be even a "AI forensic analysis" (which will probably end up assign fault to the one going faster because "think of the children")
auctiontheory 13y ago
As great CSI minds leap into analysis, I would like to point out that an eight-year-old boy lost his mother yesterday.
calbear81 13y ago
I was just in Woodside last night talking to other cyclists about Old La Honda and other popular routes in the area and my coworker mentioned that she refuses to ride on Skyline because of the lack of a shoulder in many places and how fast people drive there even when they see cyclists and know there's a blind turn ahead. As fitness becomes more socially connected and leaderboards get more attention for popular routes, I wonder if we'll expect to see more aggressive riding and more accidents like these? I also know there are a few other areas people tell me to be careful, mostly the Berkeley Hills around Tilden (a cyclist died there in 2010 trying to beat a personal best on Strava) and on Hwy 1 on the way up to Mt Tam due to the large number of cars headed to Stinson Beach and Muir Woods. Be careful out there.
mrampton 13y ago
I suspect very few in here have experience with that stretch of road, and fewer yet have that experience as a cyclist. I've ridden past that intersection probably close to 200 times (used to do repeats of OLH and coming down 84 is safer and more fun); as far as Skyline goes, it's a very safe stretch of road. How does the fact that she previously traveled that stretch at a reasonable 36mph contribute to the discussion? If the point is to determine her guilt, it misses the mark. It does, however, come off as insensitive to the deceased. In any case, I've seen a lot of analysis on braking times/distance vs speed. To this I will just add that I have a number of friends who have been taken out by vehicles suddenly turning in front of them -- it is one of the great dangers of riding. As to why that happens, it's typically either: the driver failed to account for the cyclist's speed, or failed to notice the cyclist. And as for Skyline, there are a number of factors that make it a dangerous road to be on. One is the large number of car and motorcycle enthusiasts who drive its length at reckless speeds (doesn't seem a factor here, but motorist deaths are extremely common on Skyline). Another is the high contrast lighting conditions the trees paint on the road -- something I always worry about when I ride that road for any sizeable stretch. To be honest, speed is your friend up there. The closer your speed matches the passing traffic, the safer you are. At least until someone turns into you, and then the only safe speed would be no speed at all.
ajtaylor 13y ago
So sad to read this. It seems that every day I hear of a cyclist being killed (both in Australia where I live and elsewhere). As a cyclist myself, it saddens and scares me. I'm acutely aware of how exposed I am while cycling. Thus, my personal philosophy when I'm out is this: Assume all the cars are out to kill you and act accordingly. It has served me well so far, though they are called "accidents" for a reason. Stay safe and have fun everyone!
- bsimpson 13y ago
  Wisdom I hear often, yet is too easy to forget.
bedhead 13y ago
As a bike commuter and roadie, I'll just say that doing ~35mph on roads that have cross traffic without stoplights like this seems crazy to me. The accident could easily have been either one of their fault, or shared fault, I dont know, but that kind of speed on a bike leaves hardly any margin for error. It's kind of like the city cyclist who rides inches away from parallel parked cars on the road - so much risk in getting doored. Anyway, this is a horrible thing to read about...be safe out there fellow riders.
djjose 13y ago
Tragic. My condolences to her family and to the driver of the car (not a situation anyone wants to be a party to I'm sure). I've done this ride a couple of times (OLH to Skyline and back down 84) and from the pictures can swear I've seen her out there before. This is an extremely popular route for cyclists and unfortunately it's also very sketchy (bad lighting, narrow roads, no shoulder, cars and bicycles going around 30-40 on descents), both on OLH and Skyline. For the safety of everyone in those parts perhaps better lighting, slower speed limits, and wider shoulders should be installed. The last time I road out there in early Aug, SB from OLH on Skyline was a fatal car accident and the road was closed.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
PeninsulaTri 13y ago
This stretch of road is actually on the other side of 84 from OLH, so it looks like she was coming down and into the 84 intersection area, probably from going up Kings Mountain. Much of Skyline was repaved within the last year and rendered almost unridable by the crappy (and larger than tolerance chip seal) used by the low bid contractor. I actually dropped that stretch from my regular rotation since the "repaving" practically vibrated out my fillings last time I was up there. In addition to liability assigned to the driver, I'd go after the town and the contractor for road surface as a contributing factor.
ballard 13y ago
This is a tragedy and I'm sorry for the family. Words are profoundly lamer than can be expressed. It doesnt mean much that skyline is dangerous as fuck. On a motorcycle or in a car there is a luxury of being able to slow down for blind curves. On a bike, the choices are being one with a car, breaking a collar bone on a redwood or plummeting hundreds of feet. Wiping out or considering leaping over might be options. For anyone not familiar with Skyline, it's a ridge country road that hugs the mountain range btw the pacific and the valley. It also gets hairier towards Los Gatos IIRC. Random fog and clouds can turn visibility to near zero in an instant. For most of it south of San Mateo county is gentle road with more/less some visibility apart from over-the-horizon hills. In San Mateo, it starts to become twistier and more/less switchbacks up to 92 (crosses skyline). Elk Tree and Skyline decline would be easy to get going faster than that maneuverability would allow. A guy I used to work with at Stanford bikes San Mateo to campus and back on Skyline. It's the options leading to/from 192 that are most concerning. Damn important: Quick turn maneuver for cyclists, wouldn't have helped here but it might save your ass one day: http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/QuickTurn.htm http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/QuickTurn.htm
rdl 13y ago
Sad to read this; I was just reading a historical about her and key moments in early Amazon, earlier in the week, and really impressed.

159 points by jborden13 13y ago

Kara Swisher published a similar Obituary; http://allthingsd.com/20130919/tragedy-amazons-first-cfo-and-internet-pioneer-joy-covey-dies-in-bike-accident/ http://allthingsd.com/20130919/tragedy-amazons-first-cfo-and... Another very sad day.

donretag 13y ago

A few more related stories on a bikeforums.net thread http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/913789-Fatality-on-Skyline-(Hwy-35-in-Woodside)-today http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/913789-Fatality-on-... "A 50-year-old woman was riding her bicycle downhill on the northbound lane on Skyline when she collided with a minivan that was making a turn toward her lane."

dasil003 13y ago
Damn, I saw this very scenario happen right in front of me yesterday in London rush hour traffic at the bottom of Balham hill on CS7. Middle-aged woman turns right in front of a guy doing about 35mph on his road bike. He fishtails, catapults, and slides on asphalt broadsiding the car at probably 15mph. I was on a mountain bike so I fortunately had greater stopping power. Still, there was only about a 1 second difference between him standing up and walking away (which he did) and full speed T-bone. And this was on a London Cycle Superhighway during rush hour with dry pavement and perfect visibility. Up on Skyline Blvd it's way worse even when sunny because of the light shining through the redwoods.
jackowayed 13y ago
Wow. Ok, here's some details on the accident based on news stories linked there. First, background for people who don't know the area: So this is in Woodside, the hills just west of Palo Alto. It's a nice area where you get more space and nature than living in Menlo Park/PA/MV, at the cost of having a fairly slow drive to get anywhere. Skyline, the road she was on, is the main north-south way through that area. It's a one-lane-each-way, narrow-shoulder, trees-on-all-sides (leading to weird lighting at most hours) road that is fairly straight for that area, but still has some curves. I think the speed limit is 40mph. The stretch of Skyline she was on is a very popular bike route. Some people will bike a lot of Skyline, but that ~one mile stretch is especially popular. Old La Honda Rd is a narrow, windy road that is one of the most famous cycling climbs in the area; it's got good shade and is a very steady 7% grade for the whole 3.5 miles. It's intense. Go out on a weekend and you will run into other cyclists, usually many others. When you get to the top and want to loop back towards Palo Alto/etc, you basically have two options. One is to just go back down, but descending a road that steep and windy, especially given that there's basically always a cliff on one side, is pretty frightening. So I always take the other option, which is to take Skyline down to highway 84, the same direction and stretch of road she was doing. That always feels like the safe part of the descent to me--it's mostly straight, people drive slightly slower than on 84, and it's not as steep of a descent as 84. 84 is frightening because there still isn't a shoulder, there's some really steep sections, there's some tight switchbacks, and people drive 50 mph. But, sure enough, where her accident was on Skyline, there's a big blind curve, and not very far after it there's a tiny road (basically a driveway) off to the right. It sounds like as she came around that curve, a van that was headed the opposite direction on Skyline turned left in front of her into that small road, and she ended up hitting the van. Scary.
- lectrick 13y ago
  A (draggable) picture is worth a thousand words in this case. https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=elk+tree+road%2C+Portola+Valley%2C+CA&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-122.262613!3d37.377577!2m2!1f124.05!2f69.8!4f75!2m4!1e1!2m2!1s1rosC8UJbie1yeMy8sxejw!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d10885!2d-122.3000564!3d37.4131644!3m2!1i1907!2i1319!4f13.1&fid=5 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=elk+tree+road%2C+Port...

akgerber 13y ago

This supposed "bike accident" happened when a driver violated the bicyclist's right of way by turning into her path. The driver may not have intended to kill anyone, but simply classifying this collision as an "accident" prematurely absolves the driver of any responsibility for killing a person through negligence.

cheald 13y ago
Not at all. Manslaughter is frequently a crime of negligence. Calling it an accident doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility.
zackbloom 13y ago
It's an accident in that no one intended to kill her. The driver can still be liable.
baddox 13y ago
It's pretty clear that "accident" in this context refers simply to a lack of intention. I don't think anyone is calling for the absolution of the driver's responsibility.
tzs 13y ago
Classifying it as an accident does not absolve the driver of responsibility.
Pinatubo 13y ago
You've also prematurely absolved the bicyclist of any responsibility for the collision. "It's a very blind curve and bicycles come flying around that corner, and right before the corner there's a turn on Elk Tree Road and sometimes things happen too fast," Lazarus said. "People are driving 45 miles per hour on the road and there's no place for a bicycle to go." http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeninsula&id=9253452 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fpeni...
- akgerber 13y ago
  The fact that drivers are regularly violating the speed limit[0] implies the bicyclist is responsible? [0]https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.386356,-122.264228&spn=0.0104,0.017896&sll=37.708112,-122.308526&sspn=1.316786,2.290649&oq=elk+tree+rd&hnear=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Redwood+City,+California+94062&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.38629,-122.264126&panoid=giGQ8Z3oEhwc9P2iwvXquA&cbp=12,146.12,,0,1.94 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Elk+Tree+Rd,+Woodside,+CA&hl=...

ronnier 13y ago

That's horrible. It hurts me to think about her family. I think people should really give it a second thought when riding bikes along side automobiles. It doesn't seem like the best decision one could make. It's really scary.

runamok 13y ago
I think drivers should be more aware and conscious that they are piloting a 2 ton or so vehicle. We all drive our vehicles next to everything from scooters to double tractor trailers. I have people turn in front of me in my car or motorcycle on a fairly regular basis because they are poorly trained and misjudge my speed. The driver sounds like they were fairly young and inexperienced. I drive slowly around that area because there are so many cyclists and I take my time passing them. Their safety and peace of mind is worthy of a few moments of my time.
- georgemcbay 13y ago
  As someone who both bikes and drives, I think bikers could also be a lot more aware and conscious that they are piloting a vehicle with no protection around 2 ton or so vehicles. The burden of safety should be split equally regardless of whose vehicle is heavier. While I've been lucky enough not to see a full-on crash, I've seen a few situations where bikers were almost in very serious accidents here in San Diego where I felt the biker would have totally been at fault if the collision wasn't luckily averted.
  - enoch_r 13y ago
    When it comes to personal decisions, 100% of the responsibility lies with me. When I'm driving, 100% of the responsibility to avoid hitting a bicyclist lies with me; when I'm biking, 100% of the responsibility to avoid being hit by a car lies with me. The idea being that everyone else on the road is absolutely crazy, so my responsibility is just to be prepared for their insanity and act accordingly. I think this philosophy increases my likelihood of survival. On the other hand, when it comes to cultural and (to some extent) legal ideas about "responsibility," I do think that the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility" (thanks, Spiderman) is a pretty decent heuristic. Lots of people have no concept of their own vulnerability, and lots of people have no sense of their own power to do harm, but one will hurt me and the other hurts others. Plus, and maybe for that reason, I think it's a lot more difficult to forget vulnerability (it's obvious every time a car flies past 3 feet away) than it is to forget power--passing a bicyclist with a couple feet of room just doesn't feel scary to lots of drivers.

cromwellian 13y ago

If you look at the intersection of Elk Tree Road and Skyline on Street View you could see how this could happen. Turning left on Elk Tree (http://goo.gl/mBIpK3 http://goo.gl/mBIpK3) someone coming around that turn at high speed heading south would have little stopping distance if there was a car in their lane. Not really sure what the speed limit on Skyline is there, and we don't know how she died, if she broadsided the car, or swerved into oncoming traffic behind the other car. So there's a couple of scenarios: 1) driver sees cyclist and tries to turn left in front of her at too close of a distance, causing cyclist to collide with driver, or swerve into other traffic, or fall down 2) driver starts turn just as cyclist comes around corner, but for whatever reason, driver is taking too long (e.g. car that made left turn in front of it suddenly stops), cyclist does not have sufficient stopping distance, or may be exceeding speed limit. Cyclist evasive action leads to crash. In many of these freak accidents, the knee jerk reaction is to blame the person who is more in power (the person with the car), but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. It might be a bad intersection that is just waiting for this kinds of accidents of bad timing.

DanBC 13y ago
> It might be a bad intersection that is just waiting for this kinds of accidents of bad timing. Is there any kind of big-data-gathering programme looking at accident data to see where the accident black spots are?
- fletchowns 13y ago
  I don't think that volume of data would be considered "big data". Semantics aside, municipalities regularly analyze these types of information in order to guide changes that make things safer.
  - danso 13y ago
    No. Do not assume that just because the data is being collected, that it it is actually being analyzed, and definitely don't assume that even if it were analyzed, that the political will needed to effect reform will act. http://blog.accursedware.com/nypd-crash-data-band-aid/ http://blog.accursedware.com/nypd-crash-data-band-aid/ In fact, it's not a given that it's being methodically collected in the first place.

larrys 13y ago

This is a tragedy of course but I always wonder when journalists repeat things like this: "Then she used her 173 IQ to pass California's high school-equivalency exam. At 19, she graduated from California State University at Fresno and took the CPA exam (scoring second best in the country that year). " While it would be possible to verify that someone graduated from CSU at 19 (you call them) in general I would imagine that there is no easy way to verify someone's IQ or that they were 2nd best in the country at the CPA exam. I would imagine that journalists repeat things like this blindly and they become the truth about people when stated as if fact. Of course journalists are generally going to repeat things that they are told but certain things are much harder to verify by any third party reading (as opposed to "graduated from Harvard" which could be disproved by anyone).

theorique 13y ago
You're right that there's a lot of mythology about IQ, but presumably a person could show documentation of such a thing - e.g. a score on a "real" IQ test administered by a professional qualified in psychometrics[1]. Same thing with a CPA exam - presumably, the professional organization keeps records of scores for some years and it would probably be possible to pull their file. (Similar to how you can contact a university registrar's office to verify a person's claim to a degree.) Keep in mind, I'm not saying that the journalist actually did their fact-checking to this level of persistence - just that they could. [1] e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Modern_tests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Modern_t...
tokenadult 13y ago
For someone of that age (I am a little bit older), the test administered in childhood almost certainly would have been a Stanford-Binet L-M test, which was already obsolete by the time I took it. That test did have scores that went up to the low 180s, but those are not comparable to scores on current IQ tests. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification (a Wikipedia article with more current and more authoritative references than the other Wikipedia article already kindly shared here) for more details.
freyr 13y ago

physcab 13y ago

I was just up there for the first time a couple weeks ago and I was surprised by how many bikers I saw. Its one of those streets where locals (in cars) just barrel down the hill bc they are so familiar, while bikers and runners love the area bc its beautiful and provides a challenging workout. Just a reminder that there needs to be a balance. This is really sad news.

Zigurd 13y ago

Automatic braking that is capable of detecting cyclists and pedestrians should be mandatory on cars.

fletchowns 13y ago
Why just on cars? Bike vs. pedestrian fatalities do exist.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  How many?
- omni 13y ago
  Because a cyclist needs to do very specific things during an emergency brake to avoid being thrown over the handlebars, so an automatic braking system would probably injure / kill the cyclist.
  - pyoung 13y ago
    I would argue that with the right setup (sensors, gyros, on board computer), an automated system could do a much better job than the cyclist. My guess, is that most cyclists stay well under the 'thrown over' threshold when braking, which could be part of the reason some collisions occur (i.e. too little, too late sort of thing). An automated system could probably get you right up to that threshold, and then use gyros for stabilization (to balance the bike). The reason that this won't happen is because no one is going to install this on their bike (whereas most modern cars already have fairly sophisticated on board computers and sensor systems).
    - dasil003 13y ago
      The big thing you're missing is that the rider typically outweighs the bike by a factor of 5-10. Even with all this gear your proposing which would definitely weigh something significant (because ounces are significant in bike weight, and weight is the single most important performance metric for a bike), the physical action of the riders body is going to be the dominant effect of anything that happens. Furthermore, a bike is a lot more agile than a big hunk of steel plodding in a straight line. You can shoot through a tiny gap that a computer would not be able to detect you were aiming for. There is no way to have the necessary safety margin without being totally unusable in practice.

klochner 13y ago

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to find fault either way, I was just curious. Here's her ride log from Strava over the same segment a week ago (you'll need to log in to see details on the segment): http://www.strava.com/activities/81767720#1663862661 http://www.strava.com/activities/81767720#1663862661 And here's a screenshot - you can see her speed jump to 30mph just at the blind corner before Elk Tree road, and she accelerates past Elk Tree to 36mph: http://i.imgur.com/wd4sOjm.png http://i.imgur.com/wd4sOjm.png If she was going 30+ on a downhill (-6.5% grade), it's possible the car was already turning when she hit the corner and she was unable to decelerate, maybe the pavement was wet. But it is about 300ft, so I would expect her to be able to brake in time.

enoch_r 13y ago
The problem with this theory is that the speed limit on that road is 40. If she was traveling well under the speed limit but did not have time to stop for a turning car, then it seems to me that either a) the intersection is designed such that a vehicle traveling the speed limit will be unable to stop before colliding with a turning vehicle, or b) the driver turned after the bicyclist had turned the corner. Or, of course, a combination of the two--it may well be that the intersection is fairly dangerous for drivers as well (and some commenters have talked about previous accidents at the same intersection).
- klochner 13y ago
  I kind of agree with you (see my edits), but it is harder to decelerate on a bike than in a car, especially going downhill - you run the risk of going over the handlebars.
  - jusben1369 13y ago
    In all fairness that depends a great deal on the skill of the rider too.
  - tomrod 13y ago
    I'm going to show my lack of cycling knowledge here, but I really don't understand what you're saying. Why wouldn't one just use the rear break and set their body, like when one rides a bus and has to stand?

sanskritabelt 13y ago

I drive on some of the roads leading up to Skyline nearly every day and ok, bicyclists have a legal right to the roads too, etc, but it is just exceedingly dangerous, especially when trying to pass a bike going uphill. There's no bike lane, or shoulder, and most bikers will refuse to use what few turnouts there are.

leeskye 13y ago

Regardless of who's fault it was, it's a terrible tragedy and a sad loss (especially for her little one). Prayers for her family and her loved ones. RIP Joy Covey.

Zigurd 13y ago

I really dislike legalistic arguments about how cyclists should be riding. If there are road bikers in the hills, they are not going to ride their brakes all the way down a long downhill. I live where there are road bikers, longboarders, and horse riders on the roads. Car drivers have a responsibility to accommodate these people. There are plenty of ways to drive that are technically legal but completely dickish and that needlessly reduce the margin of safety for more vulnerable traffic.

InclinedPlane 13y ago
Bicyclists are people, they make mistakes and they make unwise and dangerous decisions. The same is true of automobile drivers, who are also people. Though, of course, we've become inured to the mistakes and bad decisions of automobile drivers. Nevertheless, bad drivers are far more responsible for loss of life (their own and others) than bad cyclists.
ojbyrne 13y ago
As a cyclist, I disagree. Ultimately you're the one in charge of your own safety, and if you're going 30+ mph in conditions that have poor visibility (skyline has a lot of shadows), and not being defensive, you're at fault. "Share the road" goes in both directions.
- mrampton 13y ago
  How is 30+ mph on Skyline considered unsafe? Skyline is def. more dangerous as speed decreases -- only more so within the shadows (where the likelihood of being hit by a car driving in the same direction is much higher). You speak as though you've never known someone to be involved in an accident that was outside their power to control. Driving/riding defensively does not mean you will manage to avoid all hazards.
  - ojbyrne 13y ago
    I've been involved in at least two accidents that were out of my control, one involving a car, and it was obvious in both cases that going slower saved my ass. I can see that below a certain speed you get more wobbly, but she seems to have been going in excess of 30 mph, at which point your own reaction time becomes the biggest issue.

pkulak 13y ago

If I die on a road I hope it's in a car. At least that way I won't have a whole hoard of internet forensic scientists desperately trying to figure out how it was all my fault.

justin66 13y ago
Unless you do it in a sports car, or your blood alcohol content is anything other than zero...
- klochner 13y ago
  ... or you broadside a minivan
Goladus 13y ago
Not me. I wouldn't want to deprive internet snarkers such a great opportunity to criticize straw men.
hyperbovine 13y ago
You'll be dead...
adharmad 13y ago
One can only hope :) Sunil Tripathi had no clue that an unrelated incident would turn a hoard of rabid redditians on his scent.
raverbashing 13y ago
Maybe this new modern cars will already upload telemetry data to the cloud, and maybe later there will be even a "AI forensic analysis" (which will probably end up assign fault to the one going faster because "think of the children")

auctiontheory 13y ago

As great CSI minds leap into analysis, I would like to point out that an eight-year-old boy lost his mother yesterday.

calbear81 13y ago

I was just in Woodside last night talking to other cyclists about Old La Honda and other popular routes in the area and my coworker mentioned that she refuses to ride on Skyline because of the lack of a shoulder in many places and how fast people drive there even when they see cyclists and know there's a blind turn ahead. As fitness becomes more socially connected and leaderboards get more attention for popular routes, I wonder if we'll expect to see more aggressive riding and more accidents like these? I also know there are a few other areas people tell me to be careful, mostly the Berkeley Hills around Tilden (a cyclist died there in 2010 trying to beat a personal best on Strava) and on Hwy 1 on the way up to Mt Tam due to the large number of cars headed to Stinson Beach and Muir Woods. Be careful out there.

mrampton 13y ago

I suspect very few in here have experience with that stretch of road, and fewer yet have that experience as a cyclist. I've ridden past that intersection probably close to 200 times (used to do repeats of OLH and coming down 84 is safer and more fun); as far as Skyline goes, it's a very safe stretch of road. How does the fact that she previously traveled that stretch at a reasonable 36mph contribute to the discussion? If the point is to determine her guilt, it misses the mark. It does, however, come off as insensitive to the deceased. In any case, I've seen a lot of analysis on braking times/distance vs speed. To this I will just add that I have a number of friends who have been taken out by vehicles suddenly turning in front of them -- it is one of the great dangers of riding. As to why that happens, it's typically either: the driver failed to account for the cyclist's speed, or failed to notice the cyclist. And as for Skyline, there are a number of factors that make it a dangerous road to be on. One is the large number of car and motorcycle enthusiasts who drive its length at reckless speeds (doesn't seem a factor here, but motorist deaths are extremely common on Skyline). Another is the high contrast lighting conditions the trees paint on the road -- something I always worry about when I ride that road for any sizeable stretch. To be honest, speed is your friend up there. The closer your speed matches the passing traffic, the safer you are. At least until someone turns into you, and then the only safe speed would be no speed at all.

ajtaylor 13y ago

So sad to read this. It seems that every day I hear of a cyclist being killed (both in Australia where I live and elsewhere). As a cyclist myself, it saddens and scares me. I'm acutely aware of how exposed I am while cycling. Thus, my personal philosophy when I'm out is this: Assume all the cars are out to kill you and act accordingly. It has served me well so far, though they are called "accidents" for a reason. Stay safe and have fun everyone!

bsimpson 13y ago
Wisdom I hear often, yet is too easy to forget.

bedhead 13y ago

As a bike commuter and roadie, I'll just say that doing ~35mph on roads that have cross traffic without stoplights like this seems crazy to me. The accident could easily have been either one of their fault, or shared fault, I dont know, but that kind of speed on a bike leaves hardly any margin for error. It's kind of like the city cyclist who rides inches away from parallel parked cars on the road - so much risk in getting doored. Anyway, this is a horrible thing to read about...be safe out there fellow riders.

djjose 13y ago

Tragic. My condolences to her family and to the driver of the car (not a situation anyone wants to be a party to I'm sure). I've done this ride a couple of times (OLH to Skyline and back down 84) and from the pictures can swear I've seen her out there before. This is an extremely popular route for cyclists and unfortunately it's also very sketchy (bad lighting, narrow roads, no shoulder, cars and bicycles going around 30-40 on descents), both on OLH and Skyline. For the safety of everyone in those parts perhaps better lighting, slower speed limits, and wider shoulders should be installed. The last time I road out there in early Aug, SB from OLH on Skyline was a fatal car accident and the road was closed.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

PeninsulaTri 13y ago

This stretch of road is actually on the other side of 84 from OLH, so it looks like she was coming down and into the 84 intersection area, probably from going up Kings Mountain. Much of Skyline was repaved within the last year and rendered almost unridable by the crappy (and larger than tolerance chip seal) used by the low bid contractor. I actually dropped that stretch from my regular rotation since the "repaving" practically vibrated out my fillings last time I was up there. In addition to liability assigned to the driver, I'd go after the town and the contractor for road surface as a contributing factor.

ballard 13y ago

This is a tragedy and I'm sorry for the family. Words are profoundly lamer than can be expressed. It doesnt mean much that skyline is dangerous as fuck. On a motorcycle or in a car there is a luxury of being able to slow down for blind curves. On a bike, the choices are being one with a car, breaking a collar bone on a redwood or plummeting hundreds of feet. Wiping out or considering leaping over might be options. For anyone not familiar with Skyline, it's a ridge country road that hugs the mountain range btw the pacific and the valley. It also gets hairier towards Los Gatos IIRC. Random fog and clouds can turn visibility to near zero in an instant. For most of it south of San Mateo county is gentle road with more/less some visibility apart from over-the-horizon hills. In San Mateo, it starts to become twistier and more/less switchbacks up to 92 (crosses skyline). Elk Tree and Skyline decline would be easy to get going faster than that maneuverability would allow. A guy I used to work with at Stanford bikes San Mateo to campus and back on Skyline. It's the options leading to/from 192 that are most concerning. Damn important: Quick turn maneuver for cyclists, wouldn't have helped here but it might save your ass one day: http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/QuickTurn.htm http://www.bamacyclist.com/articles/QuickTurn.htm

rdl 13y ago

Sad to read this; I was just reading a historical about her and key moments in early Amazon, earlier in the week, and really impressed.