4 ms·

Wow, really? These questions are like criticism of people who live in flood zones. Yeah, we should all avoid water like the plague. We don't need it to drink or

Wow, really? These questions are like criticism of people who live in flood zones. Yeah, we should all avoid water like the plague. We don't need it to drink or grow crops or foster basic transportation. Have you ever looked at a map of "disasters"? You cannot escape them. It is a case of pick your poison. Which type of risk scares you less? Japan is a densely populated, urbanized, modern country. It requires substantial electricity. That electricity has to come from somewhere.

null_ptr 13y ago
Nuclear disasters like the one at Fukushima affect the entire globe, not only Japan. If the country is geographically unfit for nuclear plants, then no nuclear plants should be built there, period. Otherwise the entire region's safety is compromised, not just Japan's.
- NovemberWest 13y ago
  Have an upvote. However, I see no reason why Japan should put the needs of "the world" first. If you do not have energy security/self sufficiency, you do not have national security. America is endlessly criticized for sending soldiers to the Middle East. The world knows the real reason we did that is because we are highly dependent on foreign oil. Who would you like Japan to invade in place of having nuclear power?
  - null_ptr 13y ago
    Not all countries are equally endowed in terms of natural riches. This does not mean that everyone should get themselves on equal footing with everyone else by any means necessary. I hope that we will gently steer towards sincere and meaningful global cooperation, where "national security" will be a non-issue. I know this is an unrealistic view given the current state of world politics, but I can't help but dream out loud sometimes.
    - NovemberWest 13y ago
      I do a lot of "tilting at windmills." It is an extremely hard row to hoe. If you want to make real change in the world, you need to bring a great deal more to the table than good intentions. It helps to come up with viable, realistic solutions. And then there are huge challenges in implementing them. But feel free to dream of a better world. I desperately wish I lived in a better world. Sigh.
- grecy 13y ago
  Should we say the same thing about countries that are too negligent to run a nuclear plant? Who's going to police/enforce that? (I'm afraid to ask...)
- aasarava 13y ago
  Financial disasters like the one in the US in 2008 affect the entire globe, not only the US. If the country is morally unfit for advanced banking, then no advanced banking should occur there, period. ... ?
  - jafaku 13y ago
    Both are true. Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing though.
  - tazey 13y ago
    Non-US banks, countries, and individuals choose to do banking with the US and form a "marketplace." Non-Japanese have no say whatsoever in Japan's nuclear industry. They only suffer the "externalities."
    - VladRussian2 13y ago
      Japanese have no say in CO2 emissions by any other country, including ones relying on coal plants. Yet they suffer from the externalities of it. Tragedy of commons. WWI -> League of Nations, WWII -> UN ... How about establishing a world government without WWIII this time. Though what the frak i'm talking about if we can't even stop a government from butchering tens of thousands of their own people (like Sudan, Siria)
      - dllthomas 13y ago
        WTO?
    - agilord 13y ago
      Not entirely true. You can always offer to provide them electricity at a lower cost than they would get from the nuclear plants. There is a cross-country marketplace for electricity in the EU, and probably nobody will stop you to sell such thing to Japan.
- ggreer 13y ago
  http://squid314.livejournal.com/292620.html http://squid314.livejournal.com/292620.html has a good post on the actual danger of Fukushima. Pollution from other baseline sources like coal cause many more deaths than any nuclear accident. When you hit a nuclear plant with the fifth largest earthquake ever recorded, then immediately follow that with a twenty foot high tsunami, and then it explodes, it still kills fewer people than an average coal plant does every single year when everything goes perfectly.
- gizmo686 13y ago
  Coal plants standard operation affects the entire globe. If a country cannot regulate the pollution of coal, then no coal plants should be built there.
  - null_ptr 13y ago
    That's another environmental issue, that does not mute the issue of nuclear power plants built in unfit locations.
- hrktb 13y ago
  I'll take the bait. Can Japan scrap all their remaining nuclear plants and just rely on the entire globe to cheaply bring it the power it needs to grow ? To be serious, "[it] affect the entire globe" could be generalized to so many things from so many countries, from drug research to farming, fishing, industrial wastes etc. Having everyone put aside short sighted gains and be on the same page to do The Right Thing to reap long term benefits feels so utopian it's depressing. It would be more realistic to push for more secure, better engineered, more efficient and reliable nuclear plants. Companies from all over the globe would get behind that.
pessimizer 13y ago
>You cannot escape them. It is a case of pick your poison. This is the law of averages, and it is not a law, it is a flaw in the way people think. No matter whether you think that you'll go when it's your time to go and not a second before, and that none of the decisions that you make will affect when that will happen - it's still more dangerous to live on the inside of an active volcano than on a plain in central Illinois, you shouldn't drive the wrong direction on the freeway, and you should always wear a helmet on your motorcycle, even during short trips.
- NovemberWest 13y ago
  You seem to have chosen to intentionally misinterpret my remark. In Florida, hurricanes. In the plains, tornadoes. On the coast, tsunamis and flooding. On the west coast of the u.s., earthquakes. And if you eliminate forest fires, you a) increase the odds the next one will be far worse and b) interfere with the reproduction of some pine trees whose seeds need high heat to open. Yes, your choices matter. No, there are no perfectly safe places anywhere.
  - josephlord 13y ago
    Nowhere is completely safe but I think that Northern Europe is pretty much safe from all those things. There is occasionally some localised flooding if you are in the wrong place and we can get occasional strong winds (less than proper hurricanes). Of course past performance is no guarantee of future results...black swans... etc. but there are places in the world at very low risk of serious natural disasters.
    - NovemberWest 13y ago
      Northern Europe has harsher winters than I care for. You can freeze to death in the snow...etc. And the odds are long against me moving there any time soon. I can readily go anywhere in the continental U.S. I have actually seriously considered such things. I have previously lived in Europe. I have been willing to consider living potentially anywhere in the world. There are substantial obstacles for the average person for up and moving wherever the fuck place name you pulled out of a hat.

null_ptr 13y ago

Nuclear disasters like the one at Fukushima affect the entire globe, not only Japan. If the country is geographically unfit for nuclear plants, then no nuclear plants should be built there, period. Otherwise the entire region's safety is compromised, not just Japan's.

NovemberWest 13y ago
Have an upvote. However, I see no reason why Japan should put the needs of "the world" first. If you do not have energy security/self sufficiency, you do not have national security. America is endlessly criticized for sending soldiers to the Middle East. The world knows the real reason we did that is because we are highly dependent on foreign oil. Who would you like Japan to invade in place of having nuclear power?
- null_ptr 13y ago
  Not all countries are equally endowed in terms of natural riches. This does not mean that everyone should get themselves on equal footing with everyone else by any means necessary. I hope that we will gently steer towards sincere and meaningful global cooperation, where "national security" will be a non-issue. I know this is an unrealistic view given the current state of world politics, but I can't help but dream out loud sometimes.
  - NovemberWest 13y ago
    I do a lot of "tilting at windmills." It is an extremely hard row to hoe. If you want to make real change in the world, you need to bring a great deal more to the table than good intentions. It helps to come up with viable, realistic solutions. And then there are huge challenges in implementing them. But feel free to dream of a better world. I desperately wish I lived in a better world. Sigh.
grecy 13y ago
Should we say the same thing about countries that are too negligent to run a nuclear plant? Who's going to police/enforce that? (I'm afraid to ask...)
aasarava 13y ago
Financial disasters like the one in the US in 2008 affect the entire globe, not only the US. If the country is morally unfit for advanced banking, then no advanced banking should occur there, period. ... ?
- jafaku 13y ago
  Both are true. Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing though.
- tazey 13y ago
  Non-US banks, countries, and individuals choose to do banking with the US and form a "marketplace." Non-Japanese have no say whatsoever in Japan's nuclear industry. They only suffer the "externalities."
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
    Japanese have no say in CO2 emissions by any other country, including ones relying on coal plants. Yet they suffer from the externalities of it. Tragedy of commons. WWI -> League of Nations, WWII -> UN ... How about establishing a world government without WWIII this time. Though what the frak i'm talking about if we can't even stop a government from butchering tens of thousands of their own people (like Sudan, Siria)
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      WTO?
  - agilord 13y ago
    Not entirely true. You can always offer to provide them electricity at a lower cost than they would get from the nuclear plants. There is a cross-country marketplace for electricity in the EU, and probably nobody will stop you to sell such thing to Japan.
ggreer 13y ago
http://squid314.livejournal.com/292620.html http://squid314.livejournal.com/292620.html has a good post on the actual danger of Fukushima. Pollution from other baseline sources like coal cause many more deaths than any nuclear accident. When you hit a nuclear plant with the fifth largest earthquake ever recorded, then immediately follow that with a twenty foot high tsunami, and then it explodes, it still kills fewer people than an average coal plant does every single year when everything goes perfectly.
gizmo686 13y ago
Coal plants standard operation affects the entire globe. If a country cannot regulate the pollution of coal, then no coal plants should be built there.
- null_ptr 13y ago
  That's another environmental issue, that does not mute the issue of nuclear power plants built in unfit locations.
hrktb 13y ago
I'll take the bait. Can Japan scrap all their remaining nuclear plants and just rely on the entire globe to cheaply bring it the power it needs to grow ? To be serious, "[it] affect the entire globe" could be generalized to so many things from so many countries, from drug research to farming, fishing, industrial wastes etc. Having everyone put aside short sighted gains and be on the same page to do The Right Thing to reap long term benefits feels so utopian it's depressing. It would be more realistic to push for more secure, better engineered, more efficient and reliable nuclear plants. Companies from all over the globe would get behind that.

pessimizer 13y ago

>You cannot escape them. It is a case of pick your poison. This is the law of averages, and it is not a law, it is a flaw in the way people think. No matter whether you think that you'll go when it's your time to go and not a second before, and that none of the decisions that you make will affect when that will happen - it's still more dangerous to live on the inside of an active volcano than on a plain in central Illinois, you shouldn't drive the wrong direction on the freeway, and you should always wear a helmet on your motorcycle, even during short trips.

NovemberWest 13y ago
You seem to have chosen to intentionally misinterpret my remark. In Florida, hurricanes. In the plains, tornadoes. On the coast, tsunamis and flooding. On the west coast of the u.s., earthquakes. And if you eliminate forest fires, you a) increase the odds the next one will be far worse and b) interfere with the reproduction of some pine trees whose seeds need high heat to open. Yes, your choices matter. No, there are no perfectly safe places anywhere.
- josephlord 13y ago
  Nowhere is completely safe but I think that Northern Europe is pretty much safe from all those things. There is occasionally some localised flooding if you are in the wrong place and we can get occasional strong winds (less than proper hurricanes). Of course past performance is no guarantee of future results...black swans... etc. but there are places in the world at very low risk of serious natural disasters.
  - NovemberWest 13y ago
    Northern Europe has harsher winters than I care for. You can freeze to death in the snow...etc. And the odds are long against me moving there any time soon. I can readily go anywhere in the continental U.S. I have actually seriously considered such things. I have previously lived in Europe. I have been willing to consider living potentially anywhere in the world. There are substantial obstacles for the average person for up and moving wherever the fuck place name you pulled out of a hat.