7 ms·

Docker Now Part Of Red Hat OpenShift

106 points by KenCochrane 13y ago

golubbe 13y ago
This was an awesome collaboration. Over 15 senior contributors at Red Hat working with us at Docker.
KenCochrane 13y ago
Here is a blog post from docker: http://blog.docker.io/2013/09/red-hat-and-docker-collaborate/ http://blog.docker.io/2013/09/red-hat-and-docker-collaborate...
- agibsonccc 13y ago
  Red Hats: http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2013/9/red-hat-and-dotcloud-collaborate-on-docker-to-bring-next-generation-linux-container-enhancements-to-openshift http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2013/9/red-ha...
raphinou 13y ago
Any info on the switch from Aufs? What is the new solution, and how does it compare?
- golubbe 13y ago
  We're using device-mapper thin provisioning technology. Same copy-on-write capabilities, but more compatible with upstream kernel versions
  - teraflop 13y ago
    Cool. Are there any open issues where those of us who are interested can follow the details? My main question is whether this will require users to create a fixed-size filesystem for each container up front, like you would have to do if you were using LVM snapshots directly.
    - shykes 13y ago
      No, the goal is for the current user experience to remain the same. By default docker will create a sparse file, loop-mount it, and use that for all containers. There is some magic in thin provisioning which allows for dynamically resizing when needed. We will add more details in the docs and mailing list in the coming weeks. The best place to follow progress on this is to track docker-dev (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/docker-dev https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/docker-dev) and the #docker-dev irc channel.
    - jpetazzo 13y ago
      Each container will have a "fixed-size filesystem", but: - it will be thinly provisioned (i.e. it can be 10G or 100G but still use only a few MB on disk if it's essentially empty, like a sparse file), - it can be grown easily. On the one hand, it's a bit less convenient because you have to care about the disk usage. On the other hand, it's great because a single container can't eat up all your precious disk space (and if you want to run some public/semi-public stuff that's quasi mandatory). If you want to check the current code, you can look here: https://github.com/alexlarsson/docker/tree/device-mapper3 https://github.com/alexlarsson/docker/tree/device-mapper3
shizcakes 13y ago
Will you continue supporting Ubuntu / Non-redhat kernel versions as well as previously? Or does this portend a move like what happened with Gluster?
- KenCochrane 13y ago
  Yes, we will still support Ubuntu, and other non-redhat kernel versions. This is basically just expanding our current abilities to include areas where we didn't have great support before. The goal is to have Docker running on all linux platforms, so that everyone can use it regardless of their distro choice.
- shykes 13y ago
  No, Docker is not becoming red hat - specific. From a technical standpoint this announcement means two things: 1) Docker 0.7 will run on vanilla kernels out of the box. This means virtually all distros will be supported. It also means wider support for hosting providers which don't allow custom kernels (Google Compute Engine for example). 2) Future versions of Docker will optionally support some of the technology used by Red Hat - most prominently libvirt-lxc and selinux. The more places you can use Docker, the more useful it is :) So we have no intention of locking it into a single distro or paas.
  - SEJeff 13y ago
    I'm assuming by SELinux you mean the work ontop of SELinux for virtual machines and containers with libvirtd named sVirt[1]? [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SVirt_Mandatory_Access_Control https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SVirt_Mandatory_Acce...
    - shykes 13y ago
      That seems like the most probable path, although I can't speak for the people making that contribution. What I mean, regardless of how we actually implement, is having an elegant way to deploy containers in environments where the sysadmin relies on SELinux contexts and labels to implement security.
hosay123 13y ago
Are you shitting me? Docker is a horrible little Go binary that doesn't even clean up after itself properly when you CTRL+C it. It's barely documented, it does barely anything except some macro combinations of tar+wget+lxc with a schmoozy web site on top. Who is pushing this thing? Why does anyone even care about it? Does anyone even know what a Linux container is?
- tsmith 13y ago
  > Does anyone even know what a Linux container is? Judging by the number of times "when will Docker support Windows containers?" has been asked... no.
  - julien421 13y ago
    Windows is not quite there yet but... who knows :) - Process isolation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2bh4z9hs.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2bh4z9hs.aspx - Network isolation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh770532.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh77053... - Disks: -- Mounting volumes: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365733(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa36... -- NTFS provides something like copy-on-write (part of a union file system) via "Single Instance Storage" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS , http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-details-how-windows-8-will-handle-large-hard-disk-drives http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-details-how-windows-8-w... -- VHD "differencing disks": http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd569754.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd569754.aspx, http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=ws.10).aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=ws.10)... ...or just use colinux: http://www.colinux.org/ http://www.colinux.org/ "that allows it to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single machine. For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7, without using a commercial PC virtualization software such as VMware, in a way which is much more optimal than using any general purpose PC virtualization software. In its current condition, it allows us to run the KNOPPIX Japanese Edition on Windows."
- druiid 13y ago
Nux 13y ago
This is good news, docker is getting more serious. :-) Thanks god they got rid of aufs!
- connerbryan 13y ago
  Why "thank god"? I'm not trying to be snarky or rude, I'm wondering what's so bad about it?
  - antocv 13y ago
    There isnt much bad that I see about it but it isnt supported by most vanilla kernels, so for example to get it on ArchLinux I spent a little time to get that into a kernel, only later to find out I forgot my virtualbox modules. Hassle. I think the idea of unionfs should be in a kernel.
  - Nux 13y ago
    See antocv's message, that's what I meant more or less. I don't know how good aufs is (nor do I care really), but if it's not in mainline/upstream then it'll never be taken seriously. If you ask me to start building custom kernels to support your stuff, then I'm not going to like you. :-)

106 points by KenCochrane 13y ago

This was an awesome collaboration. Over 15 senior contributors at Red Hat working with us at Docker.

Here is a blog post from docker: http://blog.docker.io/2013/09/red-hat-and-docker-collaborate/ http://blog.docker.io/2013/09/red-hat-and-docker-collaborate...

agibsonccc 13y ago
Red Hats: http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2013/9/red-hat-and-dotcloud-collaborate-on-docker-to-bring-next-generation-linux-container-enhancements-to-openshift http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2013/9/red-ha...

raphinou 13y ago

Any info on the switch from Aufs? What is the new solution, and how does it compare?

golubbe 13y ago
We're using device-mapper thin provisioning technology. Same copy-on-write capabilities, but more compatible with upstream kernel versions
- teraflop 13y ago
  Cool. Are there any open issues where those of us who are interested can follow the details? My main question is whether this will require users to create a fixed-size filesystem for each container up front, like you would have to do if you were using LVM snapshots directly.
  - shykes 13y ago
    No, the goal is for the current user experience to remain the same. By default docker will create a sparse file, loop-mount it, and use that for all containers. There is some magic in thin provisioning which allows for dynamically resizing when needed. We will add more details in the docs and mailing list in the coming weeks. The best place to follow progress on this is to track docker-dev (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/docker-dev https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/docker-dev) and the #docker-dev irc channel.
  - jpetazzo 13y ago
    Each container will have a "fixed-size filesystem", but: - it will be thinly provisioned (i.e. it can be 10G or 100G but still use only a few MB on disk if it's essentially empty, like a sparse file), - it can be grown easily. On the one hand, it's a bit less convenient because you have to care about the disk usage. On the other hand, it's great because a single container can't eat up all your precious disk space (and if you want to run some public/semi-public stuff that's quasi mandatory). If you want to check the current code, you can look here: https://github.com/alexlarsson/docker/tree/device-mapper3 https://github.com/alexlarsson/docker/tree/device-mapper3

shizcakes 13y ago

Will you continue supporting Ubuntu / Non-redhat kernel versions as well as previously? Or does this portend a move like what happened with Gluster?

KenCochrane 13y ago
Yes, we will still support Ubuntu, and other non-redhat kernel versions. This is basically just expanding our current abilities to include areas where we didn't have great support before. The goal is to have Docker running on all linux platforms, so that everyone can use it regardless of their distro choice.
shykes 13y ago
No, Docker is not becoming red hat - specific. From a technical standpoint this announcement means two things: 1) Docker 0.7 will run on vanilla kernels out of the box. This means virtually all distros will be supported. It also means wider support for hosting providers which don't allow custom kernels (Google Compute Engine for example). 2) Future versions of Docker will optionally support some of the technology used by Red Hat - most prominently libvirt-lxc and selinux. The more places you can use Docker, the more useful it is :) So we have no intention of locking it into a single distro or paas.
- SEJeff 13y ago
  I'm assuming by SELinux you mean the work ontop of SELinux for virtual machines and containers with libvirtd named sVirt[1]? [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SVirt_Mandatory_Access_Control https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SVirt_Mandatory_Acce...
  - shykes 13y ago
    That seems like the most probable path, although I can't speak for the people making that contribution. What I mean, regardless of how we actually implement, is having an elegant way to deploy containers in environments where the sysadmin relies on SELinux contexts and labels to implement security.

hosay123 13y ago

Are you shitting me? Docker is a horrible little Go binary that doesn't even clean up after itself properly when you CTRL+C it. It's barely documented, it does barely anything except some macro combinations of tar+wget+lxc with a schmoozy web site on top. Who is pushing this thing? Why does anyone even care about it? Does anyone even know what a Linux container is?

tsmith 13y ago
> Does anyone even know what a Linux container is? Judging by the number of times "when will Docker support Windows containers?" has been asked... no.
- julien421 13y ago
  Windows is not quite there yet but... who knows :) - Process isolation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2bh4z9hs.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2bh4z9hs.aspx - Network isolation: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh770532.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh77053... - Disks: -- Mounting volumes: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365733(v=vs.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa36... -- NTFS provides something like copy-on-write (part of a union file system) via "Single Instance Storage" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS , http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-details-how-windows-8-will-handle-large-hard-disk-drives http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-details-how-windows-8-w... -- VHD "differencing disks": http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd569754.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd569754.aspx, http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=ws.10).aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=ws.10)... ...or just use colinux: http://www.colinux.org/ http://www.colinux.org/ "that allows it to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single machine. For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7, without using a commercial PC virtualization software such as VMware, in a way which is much more optimal than using any general purpose PC virtualization software. In its current condition, it allows us to run the KNOPPIX Japanese Edition on Windows."
druiid 13y ago

Nux 13y ago

This is good news, docker is getting more serious. :-) Thanks god they got rid of aufs!

connerbryan 13y ago
Why "thank god"? I'm not trying to be snarky or rude, I'm wondering what's so bad about it?
- antocv 13y ago
  There isnt much bad that I see about it but it isnt supported by most vanilla kernels, so for example to get it on ArchLinux I spent a little time to get that into a kernel, only later to find out I forgot my virtualbox modules. Hassle. I think the idea of unionfs should be in a kernel.
- Nux 13y ago
  See antocv's message, that's what I meant more or less. I don't know how good aufs is (nor do I care really), but if it's not in mainline/upstream then it'll never be taken seriously. If you ask me to start building custom kernels to support your stuff, then I'm not going to like you. :-)