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Oh, well post under your real name then, so you won't run the risk of being tainted by his money, ideas and connections, should the situation ever arise that yo

Oh, well post under your real name then, so you won't run the risk of being tainted by his money, ideas and connections, should the situation ever arise that you've done something he would be a part of. (And I doubt very much that YC operates this way anyway.) What's that? It's too convenient to vociferously denounce someone for having an imperfect track record while doing something so grand that you could scarcely imagine the decisions he's had to make? (If you tried, that is.) There's a reason why the word "anonymous" is often followed by "coward" -- it's abusing anonymity when you run to it as a shield from which to make pointed criticisms against actual people who will actually read what you write. Anonymity, used bravely, can provide a defense against the mob. Used cowardly, it's a defense against scrutability.

dlss 13y ago
First of all, if you click on anon1358's profile you'll see 3.5k karma... about as much as you have. If you read through his previous comments they are pretty mundane, so I don't think he's just changing nicks for comments like these. Which is to say that there are reasons to use a different name online that don't involve secretly wanting pg to give you money/help... It's also true that people doing grand things make more decisions, and hence more bad ones. I don't think that makes discussion of those decisions somehow off limits for discussion. Like, I'm reading anon1358's comment, and yours. Yours reads like an ad-hominem. His reads like a "As a community we seem to disagree with pg on X, maybe if we band together he will listen". I agree he doesn't seem open to hearing the other side, but I think his tone is much more constructive than yours.
- jessedhillon 13y ago
  It's not ad hominem -- I'm not saying he's wrong because he's a coward. I'm saying if you're going to be so judgmental and flippant about a process you probably have never been involved with, and also so personal as to call out a person by name for their own decisions, don't be cowardly when you do it. He could have very well-placed criticisms actually, I don't make any assessment one way or the other as to that question. Bottom line -- the guy wants to hold PG accountable to some imaginary (but popular) standard, while evading accountability himself.
  - ohashi 13y ago
    You're pretty much making a text book ad hominem attack. You're going after him instead of his argument. It's as simple as that.
    - grannyg00se 13y ago
      "You're going after him instead of his argument." That doesn't make it ad hominem. That's a phrase used in the context of a debate. jessedhillon isn't after the argument at all. He's attacking a certain behaviour. ad hominem: "Your point about global warming is invalid because you slap your children and I don't like that." not ad hominem: "You slap your children and I don't like that."
      - BgSpnnrs 13y ago
        Well by that measure it's off-topic then.
      - ohashi 13y ago
        He basically admits he didn't even consider the arguments. He calls the person a coward for posting anonymously. He's attacking the person's behavior irrelevant to the argument. Attacking the man, and admitting he never considered the argument at all. So if it's not considered ad hominem it's just trolling.
  - ZoF 13y ago
    > It's not ad hominem Heh. Reread your initial statement.
CJefferson 13y ago
Putting crapware in installers and tricking people into installing it is unacceptable. Of course, I can't stop people doing it, but everyone who does it knows they are hurting their users in return for money. I am easy to connect to my account name. Happy now? How about you now discuss the issue, rather than ranting about how we shouldn't disagree with people who have more money than us.
x0x0 13y ago
so let me share this -- I've watched prominent HN users (top 10 leaderboard) attack a user's company because they disagreed with that user's posted opinion about software. Given their willingness to drag employers into a pissing match, not posting under your real name, or at least making it difficult to find, is perfectly rational.

dlss 13y ago

First of all, if you click on anon1358's profile you'll see 3.5k karma... about as much as you have. If you read through his previous comments they are pretty mundane, so I don't think he's just changing nicks for comments like these. Which is to say that there are reasons to use a different name online that don't involve secretly wanting pg to give you money/help... It's also true that people doing grand things make more decisions, and hence more bad ones. I don't think that makes discussion of those decisions somehow off limits for discussion. Like, I'm reading anon1358's comment, and yours. Yours reads like an ad-hominem. His reads like a "As a community we seem to disagree with pg on X, maybe if we band together he will listen". I agree he doesn't seem open to hearing the other side, but I think his tone is much more constructive than yours.

jessedhillon 13y ago
It's not ad hominem -- I'm not saying he's wrong because he's a coward. I'm saying if you're going to be so judgmental and flippant about a process you probably have never been involved with, and also so personal as to call out a person by name for their own decisions, don't be cowardly when you do it. He could have very well-placed criticisms actually, I don't make any assessment one way or the other as to that question. Bottom line -- the guy wants to hold PG accountable to some imaginary (but popular) standard, while evading accountability himself.
- ohashi 13y ago
  You're pretty much making a text book ad hominem attack. You're going after him instead of his argument. It's as simple as that.
  - grannyg00se 13y ago
    "You're going after him instead of his argument." That doesn't make it ad hominem. That's a phrase used in the context of a debate. jessedhillon isn't after the argument at all. He's attacking a certain behaviour. ad hominem: "Your point about global warming is invalid because you slap your children and I don't like that." not ad hominem: "You slap your children and I don't like that."
    - BgSpnnrs 13y ago
      Well by that measure it's off-topic then.
    - ohashi 13y ago
      He basically admits he didn't even consider the arguments. He calls the person a coward for posting anonymously. He's attacking the person's behavior irrelevant to the argument. Attacking the man, and admitting he never considered the argument at all. So if it's not considered ad hominem it's just trolling.
- ZoF 13y ago
  > It's not ad hominem Heh. Reread your initial statement.

CJefferson 13y ago

Putting crapware in installers and tricking people into installing it is unacceptable. Of course, I can't stop people doing it, but everyone who does it knows they are hurting their users in return for money. I am easy to connect to my account name. Happy now? How about you now discuss the issue, rather than ranting about how we shouldn't disagree with people who have more money than us.

x0x0 13y ago

so let me share this -- I've watched prominent HN users (top 10 leaderboard) attack a user's company because they disagreed with that user's posted opinion about software. Given their willingness to drag employers into a pissing match, not posting under your real name, or at least making it difficult to find, is perfectly rational.