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If you don't know about Rockstar then don't comment. This is a great game and it really appears that the developers have put their everything in building it. So

If you don't know about Rockstar then don't comment. This is a great game and it really appears that the developers have put their everything in building it. Sometimes people want to work hard to make sure their output is a success. It is not always about 40hrs work week. A great company is one which creates a culture to build impressive products and where employees feel motivated to be a part of it. I am not saying that Rockstar employees worked more than 40hrs/week (I have no idea) but if I were a Rockstar employee I would be damn proud of the output.

valryon 13y ago
For Red Dead Redemption, wives of the developers has written several open letters to show the world the horrible condition their husbands were facing. You can easily find this story, like on Gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/Wives_of_Rockstar_San_Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/...
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  So Rockstar San Diego is 100% male then?
  - antihero 13y ago
    Have you entirely missed the point?
    - jiggy2011 13y ago
      It is signed "Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees." So either it is 100% male OR the female staff are either unmarried or do not have the same complaints.
      - sspiff 13y ago
        The fact that they're not represented in this letter doesn't mean they don't have these complains. They may not have voiced them, or voiced them privately or elsewhere. If I write a blog post about how I feel I'm being exploited by my employer, that doesn't necessarily mean my colleagues don't feel the same.
        jiggy2011 13y ago
        It is possible, but this looks like it was written on behalf of a large group of people and it seems strange to sign it in such a gender specific way.
        FurrBall 13y ago
        It's not strange if you consider there were no female programmers on the team. Demographics is a different point all together.
        hobs 13y ago
        It also isnt strange if it is literally the wives of people who did it, those who are waifuless did not have a wife participate in the document.
        antihero 13y ago
        Perhaps the husbands were not involved? This just seems like such a weird as hell point to pick up on. Why does it matter?
- selectstar 13y ago
  They way they chose to compose that open letter meant I could not take it seriously at all. (And my partner is in employment law so I have an above casual interest in these kind of things in all industries.)
- objclxt 13y ago
  FWIW, GTA is developed by Rockstar North, rather than San Diego (which produced RDR), meaning they at least benefit from the additional employment protections offered in Europe (vs the US: things like 5+ weeks of paid holiday, etc). I can only speak to anecdotal evidence, but I've hired several engineers who previously worked at Rockstar in the UK and haven't heard anything outside of the ordinary.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- golergka 13y ago
  I would gladly do overtime for a game like that, it would be completely worth it. EA's sports game studios, or Korean/Chinese outsourcing/free2play sweatshops are places where it really sucks.
sillysaurus2 13y ago
Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your salary is less than in other types of compsci jobs. So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. Employees get to feel proud they've literally sacrificed part of their life to help someone else succeed. And you're supporting pervasive lawbreaking in the name of "that's just what it takes"! If game companies are finding it hard to recruit talent, well, that's probably because people are finally wise to their ways. You won't find anyone who was more in love with the idea of being a game developer than I was, but the reality of the industry is abhorrent. The shared culture has utterly decimated any hope of work-life balance in the gamedev industry in the US. My options were to work elsewhere or to move overseas. And by working elsewhere I get more cash, get to work on problems that are more interesting, and I learn more. European developers seem to have figured out how to develop next-gen games without any of the bullshit methods of control you've described. Maybe US companies should start caring how.
- jbackus 13y ago
  > So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. > Employees get to feel proud they've literally sacrificed part of their life to help someone else succeed. Your tone suggests outrage but you're just describing the nature of competition. You are agreeing to trade your time and skills for money. "Getting you to do the bidding of others" is a cynical way to put it, but if a certain type of team building yields good results why would a company not go down that path? Of course you're going to be replaced if the you aren't producing the results you were hired for, this is the nature of competition. There is no fair or unfair. Employees are not sacrificing part of their life for someone else, they're trading their time to someone else. No one is forcing anyone to be a game developer.

valryon 13y ago

For Red Dead Redemption, wives of the developers has written several open letters to show the world the horrible condition their husbands were facing. You can easily find this story, like on Gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/Wives_of_Rockstar_San_Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/...

jiggy2011 13y ago
So Rockstar San Diego is 100% male then?
- antihero 13y ago
  Have you entirely missed the point?
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    It is signed "Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees." So either it is 100% male OR the female staff are either unmarried or do not have the same complaints.
    - sspiff 13y ago
      The fact that they're not represented in this letter doesn't mean they don't have these complains. They may not have voiced them, or voiced them privately or elsewhere. If I write a blog post about how I feel I'm being exploited by my employer, that doesn't necessarily mean my colleagues don't feel the same.
      - jiggy2011 13y ago
        It is possible, but this looks like it was written on behalf of a large group of people and it seems strange to sign it in such a gender specific way.
        FurrBall 13y ago
        It's not strange if you consider there were no female programmers on the team. Demographics is a different point all together.
        hobs 13y ago
        It also isnt strange if it is literally the wives of people who did it, those who are waifuless did not have a wife participate in the document.
        antihero 13y ago
        Perhaps the husbands were not involved? This just seems like such a weird as hell point to pick up on. Why does it matter?
selectstar 13y ago
They way they chose to compose that open letter meant I could not take it seriously at all. (And my partner is in employment law so I have an above casual interest in these kind of things in all industries.)
objclxt 13y ago
FWIW, GTA is developed by Rockstar North, rather than San Diego (which produced RDR), meaning they at least benefit from the additional employment protections offered in Europe (vs the US: things like 5+ weeks of paid holiday, etc). I can only speak to anecdotal evidence, but I've hired several engineers who previously worked at Rockstar in the UK and haven't heard anything outside of the ordinary.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
golergka 13y ago
I would gladly do overtime for a game like that, it would be completely worth it. EA's sports game studios, or Korean/Chinese outsourcing/free2play sweatshops are places where it really sucks.

sillysaurus2 13y ago

Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your salary is less than in other types of compsci jobs. So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. Employees get to feel proud they've literally sacrificed part of their life to help someone else succeed. And you're supporting pervasive lawbreaking in the name of "that's just what it takes"! If game companies are finding it hard to recruit talent, well, that's probably because people are finally wise to their ways. You won't find anyone who was more in love with the idea of being a game developer than I was, but the reality of the industry is abhorrent. The shared culture has utterly decimated any hope of work-life balance in the gamedev industry in the US. My options were to work elsewhere or to move overseas. And by working elsewhere I get more cash, get to work on problems that are more interesting, and I learn more. European developers seem to have figured out how to develop next-gen games without any of the bullshit methods of control you've described. Maybe US companies should start caring how.

jbackus 13y ago
> So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. > Employees get to feel proud they've literally sacrificed part of their life to help someone else succeed. Your tone suggests outrage but you're just describing the nature of competition. You are agreeing to trade your time and skills for money. "Getting you to do the bidding of others" is a cynical way to put it, but if a certain type of team building yields good results why would a company not go down that path? Of course you're going to be replaced if the you aren't producing the results you were hired for, this is the nature of competition. There is no fair or unfair. Employees are not sacrificing part of their life for someone else, they're trading their time to someone else. No one is forcing anyone to be a game developer.