8 ms·

$115 million? Wow. How many developers/artists/QA/management folks (or man-hours) does that buy you?

by jevinskie 13y ago

danielharan 13y ago
Roughly 1000 person years at 115k/person/year?
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  Which considering some people on the team are undoubtedly paid more, is not that surprising a number. (Although some are paid less too.)
- dpiers 13y ago
  The average salary in the game industry is 84k.
  - mehwoot 13y ago
    The quoted average salary is not the cost of employing someone though, there are always significant on costs.
    - robmcm 13y ago
      Rockstar north is based in Scotland, so it's not going to be that high ;)
      - AndrewDucker 13y ago
        Pensions, Employers National Insurance Contributions, office space in the middle of Edinburgh (not cheap) - it's not _that_ cheap here.
        robmcm 13y ago
        I was only joking, Edinburgh costs a fortune!
  - pratik661 13y ago
    I've noticed that people in the game industry make significantly less than other software engineers. Why do you think that is? The few software engineers that I know who work the hours that are the norm in the game industry make even more. I wonder what market forces are at work here.
    - bcbrown 13y ago
      Supply and demand. There's a lot of people who want to work in games, and are willing to work for less pay in order to do so, I imagine.
      - nightski 13y ago
        There are quite a few people who want to work on games, true. But I am not so sure the pool of talented engineers that are very good at the tasks game development poses is much larger than anywhere else in industry. On the other hand, I don't think a very large portion of game development teams are engineers anymore. Not only are the tools much better, there is much more focus on other things like art, sound, marketing, design, etc...
        bcbrown 13y ago
        Two years ago I had a conversation with a recruiter who was working with a company trying to build out a games-testing shop in Portland. They were offering people with 7-10 years experience $35/hr, and seemed shocked when I told them how low that was compared to previous non-games testing jobs I had held previously. It's a good point that the proportion of employees who are engineers is probably lower than in the past. I wonder how engineering vs art/music salaries compare.
    - ricardo 13y ago
      A lot of the engineers making games don't want to do anything else. They're willing to accept a lower rate of pay to stay in the industry. When they look for other opportunities, they're usually just moving from one games company to another. Since there a lot less games companies than there are companies that employee engineers in general, there is less competition and less pressure to pay the same rates as engineers may make at companies like Google or Apple.
jlgreco 13y ago
That money bought them things like this: http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/000028992/826f/GTA-5-mural-full-LA.jpg http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/000028992/826f/GTA-5-mur... (That is a massive painting on the side of a building, incase that isn't clear)
- adamnemecek 13y ago
  I'd like to know what are the ROIs for an advertisement like that. I can't really imagine that the people who will buy the game will buy it due to this advertisement. At the same time though, Rockstar probably knows what they are doing.
  - enko 13y ago
    It's extremely hard to measure, but stunts like that seem to definitely add to "hype". I mean, it's being posted organically here on HN, isn't it! "Hype" definitely gets sales. It leads to people checking out the game/movie, paying attention when they otherwise might not have - it's a form of social proof. $800m in sales, first day. How much of that was due to marketing? Who knows. But it looks pretty positive to me, and stunts like this are part of it. Almost certainly positive, IMO.
  - wwwong 13y ago
    The overwhelming majority of revenue comes in the first weeks of a game launch. For a major franchise like this, you safely know what minimum dollar amount you'll make. Invest in market for hopes of a big hit. Sure, ROI is tough. But think about the wrong decision to not market and sales flops in the first 2-3 weeks. You can't make up that lost revenue from launch.
    - sharkweek 13y ago
      Exactly -- and from a GTA franchise standpoint, their biggest success is just hyping the release as much as possible. They have tons and tons of fanboys who all rushed to buy copies on opening night. There was no doubt this would be a success -- But to build awareness and convince more people to go out and buy it during the opening weeks, that's where a poster like this comes into play. Constant visible reminders of the release date turn a 500m release into an 800m release
sgloutnikov 13y ago
"The game spent four years in full development, by a team of an estimated 250 people. Media analyst Arvind Bhatia estimated the development budget for the game exceeded US$137 million, and The Scotsman reporter Marty McLaughlin estimated that the combined budget of the development and marketing efforts exceeded £170 million (US$265 million), which would make Grand Theft Auto V the most expensive video game ever made."
dested 13y ago
From the wiki, 137 million to develop for four years with roughly 250 people (137000000/4/250) = 137k a year average per person
roel_v 13y ago
Question is, would it have made the game better? Or would it have been the same game with more content (so that you could hunt 1000 different animals instead of 50 (just throwing out number, I don't know the actuals)) but which nobody knew about?

$115 million? Wow. How many developers/artists/QA/management folks (or man-hours) does that buy you?

danielharan 13y ago

Roughly 1000 person years at 115k/person/year?

jamesaguilar 13y ago
Which considering some people on the team are undoubtedly paid more, is not that surprising a number. (Although some are paid less too.)
dpiers 13y ago
The average salary in the game industry is 84k.
- mehwoot 13y ago
  The quoted average salary is not the cost of employing someone though, there are always significant on costs.
  - robmcm 13y ago
    Rockstar north is based in Scotland, so it's not going to be that high ;)
    - AndrewDucker 13y ago
      Pensions, Employers National Insurance Contributions, office space in the middle of Edinburgh (not cheap) - it's not _that_ cheap here.
      - robmcm 13y ago
        I was only joking, Edinburgh costs a fortune!
- pratik661 13y ago
  I've noticed that people in the game industry make significantly less than other software engineers. Why do you think that is? The few software engineers that I know who work the hours that are the norm in the game industry make even more. I wonder what market forces are at work here.
  - bcbrown 13y ago
    Supply and demand. There's a lot of people who want to work in games, and are willing to work for less pay in order to do so, I imagine.
    - nightski 13y ago
      There are quite a few people who want to work on games, true. But I am not so sure the pool of talented engineers that are very good at the tasks game development poses is much larger than anywhere else in industry. On the other hand, I don't think a very large portion of game development teams are engineers anymore. Not only are the tools much better, there is much more focus on other things like art, sound, marketing, design, etc...
      - bcbrown 13y ago
        Two years ago I had a conversation with a recruiter who was working with a company trying to build out a games-testing shop in Portland. They were offering people with 7-10 years experience $35/hr, and seemed shocked when I told them how low that was compared to previous non-games testing jobs I had held previously. It's a good point that the proportion of employees who are engineers is probably lower than in the past. I wonder how engineering vs art/music salaries compare.
  - ricardo 13y ago
    A lot of the engineers making games don't want to do anything else. They're willing to accept a lower rate of pay to stay in the industry. When they look for other opportunities, they're usually just moving from one games company to another. Since there a lot less games companies than there are companies that employee engineers in general, there is less competition and less pressure to pay the same rates as engineers may make at companies like Google or Apple.

jlgreco 13y ago

That money bought them things like this: http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/000028992/826f/GTA-5-mural-full-LA.jpg http://static.trustedreviews.com/94/000028992/826f/GTA-5-mur... (That is a massive painting on the side of a building, incase that isn't clear)

adamnemecek 13y ago
I'd like to know what are the ROIs for an advertisement like that. I can't really imagine that the people who will buy the game will buy it due to this advertisement. At the same time though, Rockstar probably knows what they are doing.
- enko 13y ago
  It's extremely hard to measure, but stunts like that seem to definitely add to "hype". I mean, it's being posted organically here on HN, isn't it! "Hype" definitely gets sales. It leads to people checking out the game/movie, paying attention when they otherwise might not have - it's a form of social proof. $800m in sales, first day. How much of that was due to marketing? Who knows. But it looks pretty positive to me, and stunts like this are part of it. Almost certainly positive, IMO.
- wwwong 13y ago
  The overwhelming majority of revenue comes in the first weeks of a game launch. For a major franchise like this, you safely know what minimum dollar amount you'll make. Invest in market for hopes of a big hit. Sure, ROI is tough. But think about the wrong decision to not market and sales flops in the first 2-3 weeks. You can't make up that lost revenue from launch.
  - sharkweek 13y ago
    Exactly -- and from a GTA franchise standpoint, their biggest success is just hyping the release as much as possible. They have tons and tons of fanboys who all rushed to buy copies on opening night. There was no doubt this would be a success -- But to build awareness and convince more people to go out and buy it during the opening weeks, that's where a poster like this comes into play. Constant visible reminders of the release date turn a 500m release into an 800m release

sgloutnikov 13y ago

"The game spent four years in full development, by a team of an estimated 250 people. Media analyst Arvind Bhatia estimated the development budget for the game exceeded US$137 million, and The Scotsman reporter Marty McLaughlin estimated that the combined budget of the development and marketing efforts exceeded £170 million (US$265 million), which would make Grand Theft Auto V the most expensive video game ever made."

dested 13y ago

From the wiki, 137 million to develop for four years with roughly 250 people (137000000/4/250) = 137k a year average per person

roel_v 13y ago

Question is, would it have made the game better? Or would it have been the same game with more content (so that you could hunt 1000 different animals instead of 50 (just throwing out number, I don't know the actuals)) but which nobody knew about?