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are taking free seats and upgrades from frequent fliers who have actually earned their miles from BIS "actually earned"? For reals? I really, honestly do not

are taking free seats and upgrades from frequent fliers who have actually earned their miles from BIS "actually earned"? For reals? I really, honestly do not get the various negative posts about this. Promotions like this -- just like "earned" air miles -- are all a battle between providers and consumers to optimize their revenue and to minimize your benefit. Providers offer deals to get you to buy products (like pudding), with every hope of paying out the absolute minimum in actual benefits. They optimize every aspect of such deals, generally, putting just enough exclusions and annoyances that the actual take is profitably low. If someone on the consumer end is optimizing as well, bully for them.

atdrummond 13y ago
The difference between this, and say, free iTunes promotions on Pepsi bottles is that people like this (or people who purposely purchase re-loadable debit cards with credit cards with points, then withdraw the funds to pay their bills) take capacity from those who actually travel quite frequently and pay a significant sum to do so. When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. Especially for those well over 6 foot tall who then are essentially required to upgrade to Business or First to find a seat they can fit into. If there were significantly more inventory available (i.e. status gamers didn't dramatically impact ability to get exit row for disabled passengers who need to get up frequently, tall passengers, etc) these practices would probably be tolerable. As it currently exists, however, its yet another unneeded strain on the system. Hence the explanation below from a poster about severely limited programs and benefits.
- corresation 13y ago
  When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. That sounds so astonishingly entitled that I don't even know where to begin: If you have a problem with "people like this", complain to the airline or choose a different airline. In this case it is a bit bizarre in that you are demanding greater allowances than other patrons on the jet, and feel put out when "people like this" make it less likely you will get it for free. To feel resentment about this is not rational.
  - atdrummond 13y ago
    I should have worded that another way to make it clear that it isn't something with which -I- particularly struggle. I'm slightly over 6 feet and need to get up multiple times per flight to use the bathroom due to 6 gastrointestinal surgeries. That said, I am more than willing to give up exit row when I'm lucky enough to receive it to someone substantially taller or whom really needs it. The unfortunate thing is when someone who spends their days buying thousands of dollars of vanilla reloads at CVS, to manufacture spending on their credit card, takes a seat from a tall or disabled person who spends thousands a year traveling and legitimately needs that seat. These persons are often the most unwilling to accommodate other passengers on the plane and, frankly, strike me as more entitled. Thankfully the Airlines are moving to a revenue based frequent flier model specifically to discourage this kind of behavior.
    - corresation 13y ago
      These persons are often the most unwilling to accommodate other passengers on the plane and, frankly, strike me as more entitled. So you can actually tell who on the plane got there through apparently undeserved scamming, versus the "legitimate" users? Are you sure about that? As someone who doesn't game or optimize these sorts of promotions, I have absolutely zero issue with those who do. Honestly, good for them.
      - atdrummond 13y ago
        Check out FlyerTalk.com sometime and read the post histories of some of the manufactured spenders. They are some of the loudest at complaining about airline food, other passengers, not getting their upgrades to post, etc. These are people who pay pennies on the dollars (if that - see US Mint fiasco) for their tickets. They indirectly increase credit card fees for the rest of us and create a mountain of paperwork for cashiers and mangers at drug and grocery stores. If other passengers are high on their priority list, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong and have misjudged the situation. I've not seen much evidence, either traveling or reading through FF sites/blogs, to suggest as much.
- gngeal 13y ago
  Do you also blame people who keep the banknote they randomly find on the sidewalk for keeping it, or would you rather have them jailed outright? You must be a blast at parties. Also, there are hundreds of thousands of people who earn their living by helping others "game" the US tax code, and they don't even feel guilty about it. Don't they have any conscience at all? I suppose you'd rather have them executed. I mean, who cares that it's actually legal.
  - atdrummond 13y ago
    Generally, I would hope most people would at least make a fair effort to find out who it belonged to. Certainly don't think they should be jailed for it, nor did I suggest these type of airline customers should be punished (criminally or otherwise). This is predominantly the airline's fault and most blame should be placed on them. At least in this case some good came out of it - the food shelter received some (relatively) free pudding. In the case of the new trend in generating miles (manufactured spending for credit cards) there's an externality that impacts people who don't even travel. Credit card companies are required to determine which persons are using the cards solely to generate points for airline miles, to remove them from the programs and potentially cancel their cards. Drug and grovery stores are now required to have their workers fill out federal money laundering forms on these individuals who purchase large amounts of vanilla reloads or conduct suspicious money transfers. The costs of documenting and preventing these abuses are passed on to the end customers, whether or not they even care about airlines miles or even fly. If you use any major credit card company, you're subsidizing these operations. If the manufactured spenders put 10% of the effort into productive work that they did into gaming credit card rewards systems, we (and they) would be a lot better off for it. Do they deserve to be punished for it, though? No. Still silly and thoughtless.
- nmcfarl 13y ago
  It’s not the "promotions people" taking the seats, or forcing you to pay for an upgrade - it’s the Airlines. They determine which seats get placed in their planes how far apart, and how those seats are allocated. They could easily allocate seats with extra legroom based on height, or make it universal should that be in line with their goals. Instead a little artificial scarcity, and people start buying upgrades. And now they’ve found that adding promotions focuses their customers rage on other customers (and not the airlines). The whole setup is a win/win for the airlines - and I suspect promotions are here to stay.
  - atdrummond 13y ago
    The promo mentioned here was in the 90s and there have not been any of the "500 mile" coupon promotions for AA in years. They now cap any sort of promotional EQM (status miles) at 10k on a credit card that requires $40,000 a year in spending and a $495 annual fee to receive. These promotions died specifically because of these long tail passengers.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

atdrummond 13y ago

The difference between this, and say, free iTunes promotions on Pepsi bottles is that people like this (or people who purposely purchase re-loadable debit cards with credit cards with points, then withdraw the funds to pay their bills) take capacity from those who actually travel quite frequently and pay a significant sum to do so. When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. Especially for those well over 6 foot tall who then are essentially required to upgrade to Business or First to find a seat they can fit into. If there were significantly more inventory available (i.e. status gamers didn't dramatically impact ability to get exit row for disabled passengers who need to get up frequently, tall passengers, etc) these practices would probably be tolerable. As it currently exists, however, its yet another unneeded strain on the system. Hence the explanation below from a poster about severely limited programs and benefits.

corresation 13y ago
When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. That sounds so astonishingly entitled that I don't even know where to begin: If you have a problem with "people like this", complain to the airline or choose a different airline. In this case it is a bit bizarre in that you are demanding greater allowances than other patrons on the jet, and feel put out when "people like this" make it less likely you will get it for free. To feel resentment about this is not rational.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  I should have worded that another way to make it clear that it isn't something with which -I- particularly struggle. I'm slightly over 6 feet and need to get up multiple times per flight to use the bathroom due to 6 gastrointestinal surgeries. That said, I am more than willing to give up exit row when I'm lucky enough to receive it to someone substantially taller or whom really needs it. The unfortunate thing is when someone who spends their days buying thousands of dollars of vanilla reloads at CVS, to manufacture spending on their credit card, takes a seat from a tall or disabled person who spends thousands a year traveling and legitimately needs that seat. These persons are often the most unwilling to accommodate other passengers on the plane and, frankly, strike me as more entitled. Thankfully the Airlines are moving to a revenue based frequent flier model specifically to discourage this kind of behavior.
  - corresation 13y ago
    These persons are often the most unwilling to accommodate other passengers on the plane and, frankly, strike me as more entitled. So you can actually tell who on the plane got there through apparently undeserved scamming, versus the "legitimate" users? Are you sure about that? As someone who doesn't game or optimize these sorts of promotions, I have absolutely zero issue with those who do. Honestly, good for them.
    - atdrummond 13y ago
      Check out FlyerTalk.com sometime and read the post histories of some of the manufactured spenders. They are some of the loudest at complaining about airline food, other passengers, not getting their upgrades to post, etc. These are people who pay pennies on the dollars (if that - see US Mint fiasco) for their tickets. They indirectly increase credit card fees for the rest of us and create a mountain of paperwork for cashiers and mangers at drug and grocery stores. If other passengers are high on their priority list, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong and have misjudged the situation. I've not seen much evidence, either traveling or reading through FF sites/blogs, to suggest as much.
gngeal 13y ago
Do you also blame people who keep the banknote they randomly find on the sidewalk for keeping it, or would you rather have them jailed outright? You must be a blast at parties. Also, there are hundreds of thousands of people who earn their living by helping others "game" the US tax code, and they don't even feel guilty about it. Don't they have any conscience at all? I suppose you'd rather have them executed. I mean, who cares that it's actually legal.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  Generally, I would hope most people would at least make a fair effort to find out who it belonged to. Certainly don't think they should be jailed for it, nor did I suggest these type of airline customers should be punished (criminally or otherwise). This is predominantly the airline's fault and most blame should be placed on them. At least in this case some good came out of it - the food shelter received some (relatively) free pudding. In the case of the new trend in generating miles (manufactured spending for credit cards) there's an externality that impacts people who don't even travel. Credit card companies are required to determine which persons are using the cards solely to generate points for airline miles, to remove them from the programs and potentially cancel their cards. Drug and grovery stores are now required to have their workers fill out federal money laundering forms on these individuals who purchase large amounts of vanilla reloads or conduct suspicious money transfers. The costs of documenting and preventing these abuses are passed on to the end customers, whether or not they even care about airlines miles or even fly. If you use any major credit card company, you're subsidizing these operations. If the manufactured spenders put 10% of the effort into productive work that they did into gaming credit card rewards systems, we (and they) would be a lot better off for it. Do they deserve to be punished for it, though? No. Still silly and thoughtless.
nmcfarl 13y ago
It’s not the "promotions people" taking the seats, or forcing you to pay for an upgrade - it’s the Airlines. They determine which seats get placed in their planes how far apart, and how those seats are allocated. They could easily allocate seats with extra legroom based on height, or make it universal should that be in line with their goals. Instead a little artificial scarcity, and people start buying upgrades. And now they’ve found that adding promotions focuses their customers rage on other customers (and not the airlines). The whole setup is a win/win for the airlines - and I suspect promotions are here to stay.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  The promo mentioned here was in the 90s and there have not been any of the "500 mile" coupon promotions for AA in years. They now cap any sort of promotional EQM (status miles) at 10k on a credit card that requires $40,000 a year in spending and a $495 annual fee to receive. These promotions died specifically because of these long tail passengers.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]