4 ms·

Unfortunately, people like this are also the reason frequent flier programs have become heavily devalued over the past two decades. While this isn't probably a

Unfortunately, people like this are also the reason frequent flier programs have become heavily devalued over the past two decades. While this isn't probably as egregious as manufactured spending for credit card points (to later be converted into airline miles), his family (and others like him) are taking free seats and upgrades from frequent fliers who have actually earned their miles from BIS (butt-in-seat) flying over the years. And they're not even generating any useful amount of revenue for the airline.

drharris 13y ago
Same can be said of startups. There are people who get lucky off of an incredibly simple/clever concept that has little actual value (instagram?), while many other teams fail while toiling away on difficult problems that could be world-changing. It's not fair, but it happens, and often.
vidarh 13y ago
That may be so, but the only people truly to blame are the airlines who didn't pay proper attention to how they structured these rewards.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  Absolutely agreed there. There were plenty of people who warned AA about this abuse once the HC promotion (and subsequent Kellogg's promotions) were launched. At the very least they learned not to provide EQM (miles that qualify for status) in such promotions; now, it is only possible to earn up to 10k EQM in any given year on a $450/annual fee credit card. Even that only gets one 40% of the way to Gold. Honestly not sure that anyone at AA thought this one through.
ubernostrum 13y ago
Well... First of all, the fact that this promotion earned miles which could qualify for some type of frequent-flyer status (elite-qualifying miles, or EQMs, to use the jargon) was basically the dumbest thing ever. And EQMs these days are difficult to come by through means other than actually buying a ticket and getting on the plane; typically, only promotions which will actually earn money for the airline can earn EQMs, and even those will have strict caps on them (I have a US Airways club membership and credit card, for example, and IIRC I can't pick up more than about 15k EQMs/year from the combination of them). That by itself gives a lot more flexibility in dealing with "abuse" of promotions, since non-qualifying miles are only useful to be redeemed for travel. And there are endless ways to cap that: * Blackout dates to avoid too many "free" seats during peak paid-travel times of the year. * Dynamic fare-bucket management, allowing the number of redeemable seats on any given flight to be adjusted up or down on the fly, along with confusing schedules for when the mileage-redeemable fare classes open for booking. * Limiting availability of redeemable seats on alliance partners, making it impractical or impossible to plan longer itineraries as mileage awards. * Fees for mileage redemption, ranging from simple processing fees up to things like British Airways' stupendous "fuel surcharge" (which can make a "free" business- or first-class ticket cost roughly as much actual cash as a fully-paid economy-class fare). etc., etc. And the trend now is toward revenue-based status programs, where qualifying for frequent-flyer status requires not just a minimum number of miles but also a certain minimum number of actual dollars spent, on that specific airline's flights. That eliminates the more lucrative type of mileage-run since low-cost but high-mileage itineraries no longer help with reaching status. More generally, though, I think the airlines have moved toward no longer considering "frequent flyers" as important as they once did. Frequent business travelers are relevant, of course, but the strong preference is for the types of folks whose corporate travel department just pays the fare the airline asks for, rather than people who spend hours on travel-search sites trying to find the optimal combo of high mileage/low fare.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  Spot on. The development of the Flagship Lounges (based on revenue generation, as opposed to status) by American is strong proof of your thesis.
  - ubernostrum 13y ago
    Or look at Lufthansa's investment in its first-class terminal at FRA, and in the 747-8. They like other things about that plane, but they especially like the fact that it has room for more premium seats, and Lufthansa's image right now is that of Europe's premium airline. Not sure whether AA can match that for the US -- especially depending on the merger -- but they seem to be heading in that direction, certainly.
- ghaff 13y ago
  United, starting next year, has also added a minimum dollar amount to their status levels. Based on a quick perusal, it doesn't appear as if the dollar levels should affect most people who are buying tickets at more or less "normal" rates but it's a further protection against people gaming the system in any way.
corresation 13y ago
are taking free seats and upgrades from frequent fliers who have actually earned their miles from BIS "actually earned"? For reals? I really, honestly do not get the various negative posts about this. Promotions like this -- just like "earned" air miles -- are all a battle between providers and consumers to optimize their revenue and to minimize your benefit. Providers offer deals to get you to buy products (like pudding), with every hope of paying out the absolute minimum in actual benefits. They optimize every aspect of such deals, generally, putting just enough exclusions and annoyances that the actual take is profitably low. If someone on the consumer end is optimizing as well, bully for them.
- atdrummond 13y ago
  The difference between this, and say, free iTunes promotions on Pepsi bottles is that people like this (or people who purposely purchase re-loadable debit cards with credit cards with points, then withdraw the funds to pay their bills) take capacity from those who actually travel quite frequently and pay a significant sum to do so. When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. Especially for those well over 6 foot tall who then are essentially required to upgrade to Business or First to find a seat they can fit into. If there were significantly more inventory available (i.e. status gamers didn't dramatically impact ability to get exit row for disabled passengers who need to get up frequently, tall passengers, etc) these practices would probably be tolerable. As it currently exists, however, its yet another unneeded strain on the system. Hence the explanation below from a poster about severely limited programs and benefits.
  - corresation 13y ago
    When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. That sounds so astonishingly entitled that I don't even know where to begin: If you have a problem with "people like this", complain to the airline or choose a different airline. In this case it is a bit bizarre in that you are demanding greater allowances than other patrons on the jet, and feel put out when "people like this" make it less likely you will get it for free. To feel resentment about this is not rational.

drharris 13y ago

Same can be said of startups. There are people who get lucky off of an incredibly simple/clever concept that has little actual value (instagram?), while many other teams fail while toiling away on difficult problems that could be world-changing. It's not fair, but it happens, and often.

vidarh 13y ago

That may be so, but the only people truly to blame are the airlines who didn't pay proper attention to how they structured these rewards.

atdrummond 13y ago
Absolutely agreed there. There were plenty of people who warned AA about this abuse once the HC promotion (and subsequent Kellogg's promotions) were launched. At the very least they learned not to provide EQM (miles that qualify for status) in such promotions; now, it is only possible to earn up to 10k EQM in any given year on a $450/annual fee credit card. Even that only gets one 40% of the way to Gold. Honestly not sure that anyone at AA thought this one through.

ubernostrum 13y ago

Well... First of all, the fact that this promotion earned miles which could qualify for some type of frequent-flyer status (elite-qualifying miles, or EQMs, to use the jargon) was basically the dumbest thing ever. And EQMs these days are difficult to come by through means other than actually buying a ticket and getting on the plane; typically, only promotions which will actually earn money for the airline can earn EQMs, and even those will have strict caps on them (I have a US Airways club membership and credit card, for example, and IIRC I can't pick up more than about 15k EQMs/year from the combination of them). That by itself gives a lot more flexibility in dealing with "abuse" of promotions, since non-qualifying miles are only useful to be redeemed for travel. And there are endless ways to cap that: * Blackout dates to avoid too many "free" seats during peak paid-travel times of the year. * Dynamic fare-bucket management, allowing the number of redeemable seats on any given flight to be adjusted up or down on the fly, along with confusing schedules for when the mileage-redeemable fare classes open for booking. * Limiting availability of redeemable seats on alliance partners, making it impractical or impossible to plan longer itineraries as mileage awards. * Fees for mileage redemption, ranging from simple processing fees up to things like British Airways' stupendous "fuel surcharge" (which can make a "free" business- or first-class ticket cost roughly as much actual cash as a fully-paid economy-class fare). etc., etc. And the trend now is toward revenue-based status programs, where qualifying for frequent-flyer status requires not just a minimum number of miles but also a certain minimum number of actual dollars spent, on that specific airline's flights. That eliminates the more lucrative type of mileage-run since low-cost but high-mileage itineraries no longer help with reaching status. More generally, though, I think the airlines have moved toward no longer considering "frequent flyers" as important as they once did. Frequent business travelers are relevant, of course, but the strong preference is for the types of folks whose corporate travel department just pays the fare the airline asks for, rather than people who spend hours on travel-search sites trying to find the optimal combo of high mileage/low fare.

atdrummond 13y ago
Spot on. The development of the Flagship Lounges (based on revenue generation, as opposed to status) by American is strong proof of your thesis.
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  Or look at Lufthansa's investment in its first-class terminal at FRA, and in the 747-8. They like other things about that plane, but they especially like the fact that it has room for more premium seats, and Lufthansa's image right now is that of Europe's premium airline. Not sure whether AA can match that for the US -- especially depending on the merger -- but they seem to be heading in that direction, certainly.
ghaff 13y ago
United, starting next year, has also added a minimum dollar amount to their status levels. Based on a quick perusal, it doesn't appear as if the dollar levels should affect most people who are buying tickets at more or less "normal" rates but it's a further protection against people gaming the system in any way.

corresation 13y ago

are taking free seats and upgrades from frequent fliers who have actually earned their miles from BIS "actually earned"? For reals? I really, honestly do not get the various negative posts about this. Promotions like this -- just like "earned" air miles -- are all a battle between providers and consumers to optimize their revenue and to minimize your benefit. Providers offer deals to get you to buy products (like pudding), with every hope of paying out the absolute minimum in actual benefits. They optimize every aspect of such deals, generally, putting just enough exclusions and annoyances that the actual take is profitably low. If someone on the consumer end is optimizing as well, bully for them.

atdrummond 13y ago
The difference between this, and say, free iTunes promotions on Pepsi bottles is that people like this (or people who purposely purchase re-loadable debit cards with credit cards with points, then withdraw the funds to pay their bills) take capacity from those who actually travel quite frequently and pay a significant sum to do so. When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. Especially for those well over 6 foot tall who then are essentially required to upgrade to Business or First to find a seat they can fit into. If there were significantly more inventory available (i.e. status gamers didn't dramatically impact ability to get exit row for disabled passengers who need to get up frequently, tall passengers, etc) these practices would probably be tolerable. As it currently exists, however, its yet another unneeded strain on the system. Hence the explanation below from a poster about severely limited programs and benefits.
- corresation 13y ago
  When it is impossible to get a confirmed status seat with extra leg room, due to people who fly once or twice year gaming the system, it is exceptionally frustrating. That sounds so astonishingly entitled that I don't even know where to begin: If you have a problem with "people like this", complain to the airline or choose a different airline. In this case it is a bit bizarre in that you are demanding greater allowances than other patrons on the jet, and feel put out when "people like this" make it less likely you will get it for free. To feel resentment about this is not rational.