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> But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire prod

> But they nail the initial execution, and the communication. So their phones are still the absolute centre of the market. And no other company can inspire product lust to the degree they can. While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. How much would you pay for Touch ID? It offers little security benefit, only allowing you to log in a tiny bit faster. I can log in with my passcode fairly quickly and often without even looking at the screen. Maybe $5? $10 at a stretch. Definitely not worth getting locked into Apple's platform for another generation. Edit: It will be extremely telling of the politics of touch ID internally within apple when we see the uptake of this stuff on non-iPhone hardware. Does the entire company believe in this technology? Will we see it on the iPad, iPad Mini? On Macbooks? Once we see deeper integration of touch ID across the rest of Apple's hardware devices and software services would a moat start being formed, but it would require a stern guiding hand within Apple to make it happen.

gfodor 13y ago
> While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. Uh, how many times a day do you perform some type of authentication of your identity? I have a feeling this will be one of those foot-in-mouth statements.
- bentcorner 13y ago
  Haha, I certainly hope so - that's what I meant by my edit above. If Apple pushes this technology across the entire company then only at that time does it become a compelling part of the Apple ecology. If too many services/devices "chicken out" and avoid integrating with Touch ID then Apple will continue to be forced to carry legacy authentication mechanisms, lowest-common-denominator style. If this tech remains an iPhone (or even just iDevice) only tech, it's a (albeit impressive) party trick. Nothing provided by touch ID can't be eventually replicated by a competitor, patents notwithstanding. No other OEM is positioned like Apple is to pull this off, but it won't be easy to elevate touch id to how we today perceive something like retina.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    It seems that the technology is intrinsically linked to the A7 processor. I hate linking to a Quora article, but this one actually highlights why the A7 is such a leap. http://www.quora.com/Apple-Secure-Enclave/What-is-Apple%E2%80%99s-new-Secure-Enclave-and-why-is-it-important http://www.quora.com/Apple-Secure-Enclave/What-is-Apple%E2%8...
    - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
      tl;dr; Apple bought a company that made fingerprint scanners (like the one in the Motorola Atrix HD) and put the secure info in the secure area of the ARM chip, which ARM designed for putting secure info in. Except make that sound like the moon landing, SpaceX, Tesla and the Oceans 11 heist all rolled into one. Are we still allowed to call Apple a cult? Or are they a full blown religion now?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - sbuk 13y ago
        > Are we still allowed to call Apple a cult? Or are they a full blown religion now? What was the point of that?
        ZeroGravitas 13y ago
        That I like reading about technology and business, not feel-good fairy stories that people make up about technology and business and (un-?) intentionally obscure the usually more interesting truth?
        sbuk 13y ago
        So don't comment if it doesn't interest you.
      - jmcintyre 13y ago
ulisesrmzroche 13y ago
It's a consumer product, so it's more about the feeling that only your fingerprint can unlock your phone. If it takes off, and people like it, you're going to see it everywhere. The politicking is just slippery slope stuff, who knows what's going to happen.
jonny_eh 13y ago
If it gets rid of passwords, it's the greatest invention since the iPhone.
gnaffle 13y ago
Strategically it has a huge benefit to Apple. Touch ID provides a secure way to authenticate your iTunes account, which millions have linked to their credit cards. If Apple ever starts offering payment services through iTunes (using NFC or some other technology), authenticated payments can be done in an instant instead of "just wait a bit while I enter my password".
- bentcorner 13y ago
  By strategically I mean that while it may offer great benefits to both customers and apple, the technology in and of itself offers only a small barrier to moving to another platform. That barrier will rise with the adoption of touch id across Apple devices and services. If you're an iPhone user and I took away your iPhone and replaced it with an Android phone, would the first thing you complain about be touch id? Build quality, accessories, apps (maybe?) are all things that Apple has going for it with the iPhone that at the moment are more strategically important than touch id. It's like free samples at Costco. They're awesome, you miss them when you shop at a different grocery store, but at the end of the day there are other reasons why you shop at Costco and if you decided you needed to go to a different grocery store, those free samples aren't going to sway you to come back.
  - gnaffle 13y ago
    If I was used to paying for goods with my iPhone using touch ID and I had to start entering a passphrase instead with another phone to make payments, it might very well be one of the biggest complaints I had.
panacea 13y ago
"Does the entire company believe in this technology?" Huh? Apple isn't a bunch of fiefdoms with competing and disparate product silos. Apple as a whole is completely behind this technology, and the fact that you don't understand that renders your opinion fairly moot.
coldtea 13y ago
>While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. No, it's not. It has two properties that are very important: 1) It's very secure (not like Face unlock, which could be fooled by a photograph or fail to work depening on poor lighting etc). 2) It's very natural (you already press the home button to open the phone anyway, you don't need good light, you don't need to hold it so that the camera centers your face etc). So people will use it, unlike Face unlock which is usually discarded. Why are both of those things important? Because it means it can be used a authentication mechanism for buying stuff. In fact, Apple has already integrated it with iTunes IIRC. BOOM, you don't even have to add your Apple ID password anymore! Add Bluetooth 4, Passbook, camera for scanning codes and stuff, and half a billion iTunes accounts, and you have an "mobile payments" winner.

gfodor 13y ago

> While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. Uh, how many times a day do you perform some type of authentication of your identity? I have a feeling this will be one of those foot-in-mouth statements.

bentcorner 13y ago
Haha, I certainly hope so - that's what I meant by my edit above. If Apple pushes this technology across the entire company then only at that time does it become a compelling part of the Apple ecology. If too many services/devices "chicken out" and avoid integrating with Touch ID then Apple will continue to be forced to carry legacy authentication mechanisms, lowest-common-denominator style. If this tech remains an iPhone (or even just iDevice) only tech, it's a (albeit impressive) party trick. Nothing provided by touch ID can't be eventually replicated by a competitor, patents notwithstanding. No other OEM is positioned like Apple is to pull this off, but it won't be easy to elevate touch id to how we today perceive something like retina.
- sbuk 13y ago
  It seems that the technology is intrinsically linked to the A7 processor. I hate linking to a Quora article, but this one actually highlights why the A7 is such a leap. http://www.quora.com/Apple-Secure-Enclave/What-is-Apple%E2%80%99s-new-Secure-Enclave-and-why-is-it-important http://www.quora.com/Apple-Secure-Enclave/What-is-Apple%E2%8...
  - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
    tl;dr; Apple bought a company that made fingerprint scanners (like the one in the Motorola Atrix HD) and put the secure info in the secure area of the ARM chip, which ARM designed for putting secure info in. Except make that sound like the moon landing, SpaceX, Tesla and the Oceans 11 heist all rolled into one. Are we still allowed to call Apple a cult? Or are they a full blown religion now?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - sbuk 13y ago
      > Are we still allowed to call Apple a cult? Or are they a full blown religion now? What was the point of that?
      - ZeroGravitas 13y ago
        That I like reading about technology and business, not feel-good fairy stories that people make up about technology and business and (un-?) intentionally obscure the usually more interesting truth?
        sbuk 13y ago
        So don't comment if it doesn't interest you.
    - jmcintyre 13y ago

ulisesrmzroche 13y ago

It's a consumer product, so it's more about the feeling that only your fingerprint can unlock your phone. If it takes off, and people like it, you're going to see it everywhere. The politicking is just slippery slope stuff, who knows what's going to happen.

jonny_eh 13y ago

If it gets rid of passwords, it's the greatest invention since the iPhone.

gnaffle 13y ago

Strategically it has a huge benefit to Apple. Touch ID provides a secure way to authenticate your iTunes account, which millions have linked to their credit cards. If Apple ever starts offering payment services through iTunes (using NFC or some other technology), authenticated payments can be done in an instant instead of "just wait a bit while I enter my password".

bentcorner 13y ago
By strategically I mean that while it may offer great benefits to both customers and apple, the technology in and of itself offers only a small barrier to moving to another platform. That barrier will rise with the adoption of touch id across Apple devices and services. If you're an iPhone user and I took away your iPhone and replaced it with an Android phone, would the first thing you complain about be touch id? Build quality, accessories, apps (maybe?) are all things that Apple has going for it with the iPhone that at the moment are more strategically important than touch id. It's like free samples at Costco. They're awesome, you miss them when you shop at a different grocery store, but at the end of the day there are other reasons why you shop at Costco and if you decided you needed to go to a different grocery store, those free samples aren't going to sway you to come back.
- gnaffle 13y ago
  If I was used to paying for goods with my iPhone using touch ID and I had to start entering a passphrase instead with another phone to make payments, it might very well be one of the biggest complaints I had.

panacea 13y ago

"Does the entire company believe in this technology?" Huh? Apple isn't a bunch of fiefdoms with competing and disparate product silos. Apple as a whole is completely behind this technology, and the fact that you don't understand that renders your opinion fairly moot.

coldtea 13y ago

>While they may have implemented Touch ID really well, it's still just yet another way of unlocking the device. Strategically it has little benefit to Apple. No, it's not. It has two properties that are very important: 1) It's very secure (not like Face unlock, which could be fooled by a photograph or fail to work depening on poor lighting etc). 2) It's very natural (you already press the home button to open the phone anyway, you don't need good light, you don't need to hold it so that the camera centers your face etc). So people will use it, unlike Face unlock which is usually discarded. Why are both of those things important? Because it means it can be used a authentication mechanism for buying stuff. In fact, Apple has already integrated it with iTunes IIRC. BOOM, you don't even have to add your Apple ID password anymore! Add Bluetooth 4, Passbook, camera for scanning codes and stuff, and half a billion iTunes accounts, and you have an "mobile payments" winner.