6 ms·

I don't love the article's tone, but I do like the implicit point that Gen Y's sense of entitlement about success is not so different from older generations' se

I don't love the article's tone, but I do like the implicit point that Gen Y's sense of entitlement about success is not so different from older generations' sense of entitlement about pensions. "Aww, you promised that if you to get that fancy degree and then everything would magically work out for you? And it didn't? Totally predictable--serves you right." Isn't so different from: "Aww, you were promised that if you showed up to work consistently for 40 years, your employers would pay you to do nothing for the rest of your life and cover your skyrocketing medical expenses? And that's not working out? Totally predictable--serves you right."

jmspring 13y ago
The article compares Gen Y against boomers. Reality, at least in my world, Boomers had a good deal in terms of pensions, health care, and the like -- but unless those same Boomers were in Government jobs, those pension/healthcare promises are not as rosy as they were purported to be, or they took their early retirement benefits and folded them into risk in to the market. Those that did found themselves in a world of hurt come the late 90s/early 2000s and are now working at sub-optimal jobs in their 60s. Personally, I've been working since I was 14 and I actually enjoy it -- a mix of pays the bills jobs, projects, and hobbies. My work ethic is best described as puritanical with a dose of optimizing for work life balance (at home preferred over sitting in a car for 45-60min). I probably work more than my parents did, but I don't have kids. Any success I have is hard one over time, hard work, and being smart about decisions. I've never had a sense of "I deserve X". I don't agree with the article in a number of things, but when I've lead/managed members of Gen Y, there is a general feeling that they desire to advance/have more responsibility than their experience dictates. This is a generalization -- greater than 50% were of that mindset, but there were those in the remainder that were more balanced in their expectaions. Sure, it is great to be goal oriented and have optimism, but for some of us a track record is more important than professed potential.
vacri 13y ago
One of the reasons why people think that Gen Y is self-entitled is because they are so inward-looking that they (in general) never bother to think of what it was like for those before. It's all about "I hurt now" Example: "Last weekend my baby had a fever, and we contemplated taking him to the ER, and my first thought was - had to be - “Oh God, that could wipe out our bank account! Maybe he can just ride it out?”" As opposed to previous generations who had much less access to healthcare in the first place? The boomers are such a target for Gen Y wrath, yet there's little reflection on how growing up was different for the two. Boomers and before just buckled down and got on with it, because life is tough. I was once having this discussion online with a Gen Yer, and I pointed out the medical advances, civil rights advances, relative lack of scarcity, so on and so forth. Not to mention growing up under the constant threat of the Cold War, which makes the War on Terrorism look like child's play. Despite all this, the entirety of her counterargument was 'some schools now require metal detectors'. She just couldn't grasp what it was like to grow up in previous generations - where instead of getting a false promise of a better life, you got no promise at all, and fewer entertainment options for distracting yourself. And as a woman, life would have been worse, with spousal and sexual abuse swept under the carpet as a matter of routine, and entirely legal reduced wages for the same work. Are Gen Y better or worse off than previous generations? I certainly don't think they're worse off, it's just not 'perfect'. This article shows a lack of perception of the hardships boomers had and overcame, plus it quietly sifts in some whinging because his choice of career is dying... which is his choice of career, unrelated to Gen Y, and I noted that there was no acknowledgement of people in previous decades whose careers fell by the wayside (farriers? manufacturers? miners?). He certainly didn't mention that there are entire careers that now exist that didn't 20 years ago (pretty much all of the internet-related environment, for example). The simple test is: would you rather live as an average person now or in 1960? If you're a young man in the US, remember that conscription is about to hit you, big time. (edit: and common jobs are mostly manual labour - there's very little in the way of 'designer' and the like)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - vacri 13y ago
    Can you please reference the part of what I wrote that makes you think I consider myself a harder worker? more thick skinned than any Gen Y person I consider myself more thick-skinned than most people of any age. I've had friends remark on that point. Am I special? I think my personality type is uncommon, but I don't think that makes me special in the way you're meaning the word. I'm just another guy. I contribute the same amount to society as the average guy. I have no reason to think I'm special outside of what I mean to my friends. That you assume that I think I'm special suggests that you're suffering from your own sense of self-entitlement. Are you aware of which generation I'm part of? Very little of what I said is self-referential. I am a part of 'previous generations' and I did grow up under the end of the Cold War. So you assume that because I'm making an argument, I must be defending myself, because apparently that's the only thing that makes sense to you? You seem to be projecting.
- angersock 13y ago
  So, here's some things that magically never seem to make it into the bookkeeping: - We were at war with an enemy that actually felt credible. The Reds had nukes, invaded countries, and could have (as both sides nearly did) brought about the fiery death of the world. - Not only was this threat credible, the government did useful things to protect its citizens: Civil Defense stockpiles and training, school drills and films that educated, and so on. Our current .gov is willfully ineffective. - Healthcare was much more affordable, as basic care was cheaper and not being eaten alive by soulless administrators with fuckoff-huge budgets in a non-profit dickwaving contest. Resistant strains of bacteria weren't as widespread. Insurance and malpractice was not as big a deal. - Not only was healthcare cheaper, there was not as much science as we have today invested in feeding us shit food that tastes great and has no redeeming nutritional value. There wasn't a McDonald's or Starbucks on every corner. - The prison-industrial complex was not as embedded as it is today, nor were police as militarized. - You could get a good-paying job doing vocational work, and even receive useful training for it at school. You might even get a good pension. Neither companies nor unions had screwed everything up yet. - You didn't have to worry about your job being trivially outsourced, as international shipping hadn't quite gotten together just yet. - You didn't have to worry about being bombarded with advertising target directly at you every day from every appliance, because the 'net wasn't around, nor was Facebook. - My alma mater had free tuition for the first half of the 60s. :| - Ma Bell had a competent government-sanctioned monopoly, instead of the patchwork fiefdoms from the 80s and 90s. - We put a man on the fucking moon, instead of ads in the browser. ~ So, uh, yeah. There were downsides to be sure--I'd probably be running some ENIAC derivative or working at NASA (given my skillset) doing server monkey work right now, I'd to write weird programs for weird machines in weird languages, I'd have been bullied more growing up, and if certain classes of accidents happened I'd be shit out of luck. If I were not white, male, or straight I could expect more trouble; then again, I'd probably have a more close-knit community to help me with those problems. I'll leave speculation on dating and gender relations for some other thread and time. All the same, I bet I could raise a family more healthily and more easily, and with greater (if perhaps more false) confidence that Things Would Be Alright.
001sky 13y ago
you were promised entitlement is contraindicated a wrtitten contract

jmspring 13y ago

The article compares Gen Y against boomers. Reality, at least in my world, Boomers had a good deal in terms of pensions, health care, and the like -- but unless those same Boomers were in Government jobs, those pension/healthcare promises are not as rosy as they were purported to be, or they took their early retirement benefits and folded them into risk in to the market. Those that did found themselves in a world of hurt come the late 90s/early 2000s and are now working at sub-optimal jobs in their 60s. Personally, I've been working since I was 14 and I actually enjoy it -- a mix of pays the bills jobs, projects, and hobbies. My work ethic is best described as puritanical with a dose of optimizing for work life balance (at home preferred over sitting in a car for 45-60min). I probably work more than my parents did, but I don't have kids. Any success I have is hard one over time, hard work, and being smart about decisions. I've never had a sense of "I deserve X". I don't agree with the article in a number of things, but when I've lead/managed members of Gen Y, there is a general feeling that they desire to advance/have more responsibility than their experience dictates. This is a generalization -- greater than 50% were of that mindset, but there were those in the remainder that were more balanced in their expectaions. Sure, it is great to be goal oriented and have optimism, but for some of us a track record is more important than professed potential.

vacri 13y ago

One of the reasons why people think that Gen Y is self-entitled is because they are so inward-looking that they (in general) never bother to think of what it was like for those before. It's all about "I hurt now" Example: "Last weekend my baby had a fever, and we contemplated taking him to the ER, and my first thought was - had to be - “Oh God, that could wipe out our bank account! Maybe he can just ride it out?”" As opposed to previous generations who had much less access to healthcare in the first place? The boomers are such a target for Gen Y wrath, yet there's little reflection on how growing up was different for the two. Boomers and before just buckled down and got on with it, because life is tough. I was once having this discussion online with a Gen Yer, and I pointed out the medical advances, civil rights advances, relative lack of scarcity, so on and so forth. Not to mention growing up under the constant threat of the Cold War, which makes the War on Terrorism look like child's play. Despite all this, the entirety of her counterargument was 'some schools now require metal detectors'. She just couldn't grasp what it was like to grow up in previous generations - where instead of getting a false promise of a better life, you got no promise at all, and fewer entertainment options for distracting yourself. And as a woman, life would have been worse, with spousal and sexual abuse swept under the carpet as a matter of routine, and entirely legal reduced wages for the same work. Are Gen Y better or worse off than previous generations? I certainly don't think they're worse off, it's just not 'perfect'. This article shows a lack of perception of the hardships boomers had and overcame, plus it quietly sifts in some whinging because his choice of career is dying... which is his choice of career, unrelated to Gen Y, and I noted that there was no acknowledgement of people in previous decades whose careers fell by the wayside (farriers? manufacturers? miners?). He certainly didn't mention that there are entire careers that now exist that didn't 20 years ago (pretty much all of the internet-related environment, for example). The simple test is: would you rather live as an average person now or in 1960? If you're a young man in the US, remember that conscription is about to hit you, big time. (edit: and common jobs are mostly manual labour - there's very little in the way of 'designer' and the like)

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- vacri 13y ago
  Can you please reference the part of what I wrote that makes you think I consider myself a harder worker? more thick skinned than any Gen Y person I consider myself more thick-skinned than most people of any age. I've had friends remark on that point. Am I special? I think my personality type is uncommon, but I don't think that makes me special in the way you're meaning the word. I'm just another guy. I contribute the same amount to society as the average guy. I have no reason to think I'm special outside of what I mean to my friends. That you assume that I think I'm special suggests that you're suffering from your own sense of self-entitlement. Are you aware of which generation I'm part of? Very little of what I said is self-referential. I am a part of 'previous generations' and I did grow up under the end of the Cold War. So you assume that because I'm making an argument, I must be defending myself, because apparently that's the only thing that makes sense to you? You seem to be projecting.
angersock 13y ago
So, here's some things that magically never seem to make it into the bookkeeping: - We were at war with an enemy that actually felt credible. The Reds had nukes, invaded countries, and could have (as both sides nearly did) brought about the fiery death of the world. - Not only was this threat credible, the government did useful things to protect its citizens: Civil Defense stockpiles and training, school drills and films that educated, and so on. Our current .gov is willfully ineffective. - Healthcare was much more affordable, as basic care was cheaper and not being eaten alive by soulless administrators with fuckoff-huge budgets in a non-profit dickwaving contest. Resistant strains of bacteria weren't as widespread. Insurance and malpractice was not as big a deal. - Not only was healthcare cheaper, there was not as much science as we have today invested in feeding us shit food that tastes great and has no redeeming nutritional value. There wasn't a McDonald's or Starbucks on every corner. - The prison-industrial complex was not as embedded as it is today, nor were police as militarized. - You could get a good-paying job doing vocational work, and even receive useful training for it at school. You might even get a good pension. Neither companies nor unions had screwed everything up yet. - You didn't have to worry about your job being trivially outsourced, as international shipping hadn't quite gotten together just yet. - You didn't have to worry about being bombarded with advertising target directly at you every day from every appliance, because the 'net wasn't around, nor was Facebook. - My alma mater had free tuition for the first half of the 60s. :| - Ma Bell had a competent government-sanctioned monopoly, instead of the patchwork fiefdoms from the 80s and 90s. - We put a man on the fucking moon, instead of ads in the browser. ~ So, uh, yeah. There were downsides to be sure--I'd probably be running some ENIAC derivative or working at NASA (given my skillset) doing server monkey work right now, I'd to write weird programs for weird machines in weird languages, I'd have been bullied more growing up, and if certain classes of accidents happened I'd be shit out of luck. If I were not white, male, or straight I could expect more trouble; then again, I'd probably have a more close-knit community to help me with those problems. I'll leave speculation on dating and gender relations for some other thread and time. All the same, I bet I could raise a family more healthily and more easily, and with greater (if perhaps more false) confidence that Things Would Be Alright.

001sky 13y ago

you were promised entitlement is contraindicated a wrtitten contract