4 ms·

> but the US lacking so many of these in a widespread manner makes me not consider it a first world country. Cute. The inferiority complex is palpable. You cr

by jquery 13y ago

> but the US lacking so many of these in a widespread manner makes me not consider it a first world country. Cute. The inferiority complex is palpable. You create very specific custom goalposts for being a first-world country and then you just happen to meet them. Cheers mate, congrats on making your small nation a good place to live. Don't be so insecure.

tazjin 13y ago
Tell me what makes the US a better place to live, and don't say something like "freedom" or "democracy" (hah!).
- jquery 13y ago
  It's not a list of policy tick-boxes that make the USA what it is. It's our enormous diversity. The USA is many countries that all live together as one. There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world. It's why our economic and cultural engines are the biggest in the world. Compared to the USA... Sweden is... provincial. And that's fine. You're doing well.
  - tazjin 13y ago
    Look at Germany! Much higher population density than the US at 1/4 (roughly, from memory) of the population.
    - noselasd 13y ago
      But as he said, the US is many things. It's not that hard to find an area the size of Germany in the US where the population density is the same or higher than in Germany - just as you'll find parts or states that has the population density of Sweden.
  - polymatter 13y ago
    The USA is significantly larger than Sweden in both geography and sheer numbers of people. This has an obvious effect on the absolute size of economic engine. If you take population into account then Sweden actually has a larger economy[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nom...
  - L4mppu 13y ago
    European Union is basically many countries living together as one too. I can move between countries without any problem. I can work in any other EU country just as easily as I can in my home country. How about you consider Sweden as one province of EU. Are you really saying that different cultures aren't getting along here? What you win at economy you lose in quality of life.
    - varjag 13y ago
      If we are entirely honest, you don't have anywhere near the level of social mobility across the EU as across the U.S.A.
      - L4mppu 13y ago
        So what can't I do when I go to other EU country that you can when changing state in US? I still get health care, I still can work there, I can move there if i so desire. What can't I do what I could possibly still want?
        varjag 13y ago
        You are a foreigner when you move to a different place across EU, with all social implications. A worker moving from LA to NYC is not nearly as disadvantaged as one moving from say Sicily to Sweden. Of course you are able to move freely and there's no legal barrier preventing your employment, but in practice you are rarely on equal footing with locals. There are both linguistic and cultural externalities at work here, which are simply absent over the pond.
  - zalew 13y ago
    > There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world. Brasil.
  - dalke 13y ago
    You've made several assertions which have no basis in fact. "There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world" Yes, there are many cultures in the US. If I use language as a proxy for culture, then according to one reference there are 311 languages spoken in the US. There are 820 in Papua New Guinea, 742 in Indonesia, 516 in Nigeria, and 427 India. So it seems like there are even more cultures in those countries, and a higher diversity. By your argument, those countries should be economic and culture engines, yes? Sure, that's not an exact measure since in the US there are many different cultures which use English, but then again Hindi plays a similar role in India. You've made the assertion, so it's up to you to back it up. Or, if I simply ask Wikipedia for countries ranked by diversity it gives me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_eth... , which ranks Cameroon as the most culturally diverse country. The US is 84th on that list. Canada is 37th on that list, Belgium is 43rd, Switzerland 53rd, New Zealand is 69th ... and Sweden is 128th. It does not seems that the diversity of the US is sufficiently enormous or exceptional as to give rise to your conclusion. Eg, India has more people and more diversity, but doesn't have the same economic and cultural influence as the US, so certainly something is missing in your analysis. Then you say "get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world." What does that even mean? How do you know that the diversity of cultures gets along better in the US than in Canada, or in Belgium? Is it a (provincial) belief of yours, or if not, what is the basis for your analysis?
    - jquery 13y ago
      If you take a look at a list of countries ranked by foreign-born population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo... USA is ranked #1... by a huge margin. The fact we rank so low on your cited Wikipedia page is a evidence to my assertion that we "get along". Unlike so many other countries, we integrate and assimilate our immigrants.
      - dalke 13y ago
        You didn't say "foreign born", you said "enormous diversity." Those are very different concepts. "Unlike so many other countries, we integrate and assimilate our immigrants" What does 'diverse' mean to you? Since I don't think it means what you think it means. Assimilation is a process which reduces diversity. Also, in that list the US is indeed #1 ... in the total number of immigrants. If you re-sort by "Immigrants as percentage of national population" then it's: UAE - 83.7% (but I don't include guest workers) Saudi Arabia - 31.4% Australia - 27.7% Canada - 20.7 % United States - 14.3% By all metrics, it seems that Canada has both a more diverse culture than the US and a higher percentage of immigrants than the US. That's the country you should be praising, not the US. The main factor in all of these numbers is that the US has a high population. Once you switch to per-capita, it drops in the ranks. Congratulations, there's a lot of people living in the US.
  - jnardiello 13y ago
    Believe it or not, i've been living for quite some time in Russia and you hear Russians saying exactly what you say, all the time. I think that all the last century "big-players" have this "we are different, we are better" syndrome. Just let me say, Sweden is a really GOOD place where to live- No need to troll around.
Dewie 13y ago
If that is a sign of an inferiority complex, what is American Exceptionalism[0] a sign of? [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
- jquery 13y ago
  Are you asking me to repeat myself?
  - Dewie 13y ago
    It was a rhetorical question.
- thedufer 13y ago
  Quoting that article: > the term does not necessarily imply superiority Those for whom the term does imply superiority lie largely on the right, politically speaking, while those on HN lie largely on the left, in my experience. It seems to me that there is a difference between calling someone out on an inferiority complex, and calling someone out on sharing a country with people who have an inferiority complex.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    The term itself suggests superiority, by using the word "exceptional". That isn't a word reserved for comparing different things that are different but not objectively better or worse. > It seems to me that there is a difference between calling someone out on an inferiority complex, and calling someone out on sharing a country with people who have an inferiority complex. And that person didn't say that he's from the US, for that matter. But you can read a personal attack into it if you want.
lmm 13y ago
I don't think we're talking cherry-picked goalposts here. On many axes the US is a striking outlier compared with other countries at similar levels of economic development, seemingly having more in common with BRIC than western Europe - healthcare, publicly-funded education, inequality, incarceration rate, public transport, labour laws, environmental protection. Did you have some other measures of development in mind where the US scores are more close to the rest of the "first world"?

by jquery 13y ago

tazjin 13y ago

Tell me what makes the US a better place to live, and don't say something like "freedom" or "democracy" (hah!).

jquery 13y ago
It's not a list of policy tick-boxes that make the USA what it is. It's our enormous diversity. The USA is many countries that all live together as one. There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world. It's why our economic and cultural engines are the biggest in the world. Compared to the USA... Sweden is... provincial. And that's fine. You're doing well.
- tazjin 13y ago
  Look at Germany! Much higher population density than the US at 1/4 (roughly, from memory) of the population.
  - noselasd 13y ago
    But as he said, the US is many things. It's not that hard to find an area the size of Germany in the US where the population density is the same or higher than in Germany - just as you'll find parts or states that has the population density of Sweden.
- polymatter 13y ago
  The USA is significantly larger than Sweden in both geography and sheer numbers of people. This has an obvious effect on the absolute size of economic engine. If you take population into account then Sweden actually has a larger economy[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nom...
- L4mppu 13y ago
  European Union is basically many countries living together as one too. I can move between countries without any problem. I can work in any other EU country just as easily as I can in my home country. How about you consider Sweden as one province of EU. Are you really saying that different cultures aren't getting along here? What you win at economy you lose in quality of life.
  - varjag 13y ago
    If we are entirely honest, you don't have anywhere near the level of social mobility across the EU as across the U.S.A.
    - L4mppu 13y ago
      So what can't I do when I go to other EU country that you can when changing state in US? I still get health care, I still can work there, I can move there if i so desire. What can't I do what I could possibly still want?
      - varjag 13y ago
        You are a foreigner when you move to a different place across EU, with all social implications. A worker moving from LA to NYC is not nearly as disadvantaged as one moving from say Sicily to Sweden. Of course you are able to move freely and there's no legal barrier preventing your employment, but in practice you are rarely on equal footing with locals. There are both linguistic and cultural externalities at work here, which are simply absent over the pond.
- zalew 13y ago
  > There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world. Brasil.
- dalke 13y ago
  You've made several assertions which have no basis in fact. "There are so many cultures here that all get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world" Yes, there are many cultures in the US. If I use language as a proxy for culture, then according to one reference there are 311 languages spoken in the US. There are 820 in Papua New Guinea, 742 in Indonesia, 516 in Nigeria, and 427 India. So it seems like there are even more cultures in those countries, and a higher diversity. By your argument, those countries should be economic and culture engines, yes? Sure, that's not an exact measure since in the US there are many different cultures which use English, but then again Hindi plays a similar role in India. You've made the assertion, so it's up to you to back it up. Or, if I simply ask Wikipedia for countries ranked by diversity it gives me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_ethnic_and_cultural_diversity_level http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_eth... , which ranks Cameroon as the most culturally diverse country. The US is 84th on that list. Canada is 37th on that list, Belgium is 43rd, Switzerland 53rd, New Zealand is 69th ... and Sweden is 128th. It does not seems that the diversity of the US is sufficiently enormous or exceptional as to give rise to your conclusion. Eg, India has more people and more diversity, but doesn't have the same economic and cultural influence as the US, so certainly something is missing in your analysis. Then you say "get along better here than they do anywhere else in the world." What does that even mean? How do you know that the diversity of cultures gets along better in the US than in Canada, or in Belgium? Is it a (provincial) belief of yours, or if not, what is the basis for your analysis?
  - jquery 13y ago
    If you take a look at a list of countries ranked by foreign-born population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo... USA is ranked #1... by a huge margin. The fact we rank so low on your cited Wikipedia page is a evidence to my assertion that we "get along". Unlike so many other countries, we integrate and assimilate our immigrants.
    - dalke 13y ago
      You didn't say "foreign born", you said "enormous diversity." Those are very different concepts. "Unlike so many other countries, we integrate and assimilate our immigrants" What does 'diverse' mean to you? Since I don't think it means what you think it means. Assimilation is a process which reduces diversity. Also, in that list the US is indeed #1 ... in the total number of immigrants. If you re-sort by "Immigrants as percentage of national population" then it's: UAE - 83.7% (but I don't include guest workers) Saudi Arabia - 31.4% Australia - 27.7% Canada - 20.7 % United States - 14.3% By all metrics, it seems that Canada has both a more diverse culture than the US and a higher percentage of immigrants than the US. That's the country you should be praising, not the US. The main factor in all of these numbers is that the US has a high population. Once you switch to per-capita, it drops in the ranks. Congratulations, there's a lot of people living in the US.
- jnardiello 13y ago
  Believe it or not, i've been living for quite some time in Russia and you hear Russians saying exactly what you say, all the time. I think that all the last century "big-players" have this "we are different, we are better" syndrome. Just let me say, Sweden is a really GOOD place where to live- No need to troll around.

Dewie 13y ago

If that is a sign of an inferiority complex, what is American Exceptionalism[0] a sign of? [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

jquery 13y ago
Are you asking me to repeat myself?
- Dewie 13y ago
  It was a rhetorical question.
thedufer 13y ago
Quoting that article: > the term does not necessarily imply superiority Those for whom the term does imply superiority lie largely on the right, politically speaking, while those on HN lie largely on the left, in my experience. It seems to me that there is a difference between calling someone out on an inferiority complex, and calling someone out on sharing a country with people who have an inferiority complex.
- Dewie 13y ago
  The term itself suggests superiority, by using the word "exceptional". That isn't a word reserved for comparing different things that are different but not objectively better or worse. > It seems to me that there is a difference between calling someone out on an inferiority complex, and calling someone out on sharing a country with people who have an inferiority complex. And that person didn't say that he's from the US, for that matter. But you can read a personal attack into it if you want.

lmm 13y ago

I don't think we're talking cherry-picked goalposts here. On many axes the US is a striking outlier compared with other countries at similar levels of economic development, seemingly having more in common with BRIC than western Europe - healthcare, publicly-funded education, inequality, incarceration rate, public transport, labour laws, environmental protection. Did you have some other measures of development in mind where the US scores are more close to the rest of the "first world"?