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This. A bunch of meatheads who don't feel compelled to be part of their kids education because they managed to buy homes and get solid jobs at 18 with a HS dipl

This. A bunch of meatheads who don't feel compelled to be part of their kids education because they managed to buy homes and get solid jobs at 18 with a HS diploma is the legacy we need to correct. Fleeing to private schools or the best suburban districts has been the plan for a long time, which is nice for those who can afford it.

wyclif 13y ago
Meh. I think the "meatheads=people with only HS diplomas" equation is facile. If you're speaking specifically about blue-collar workers, it's still pretty insulting, but you could probably make a better case with that differentiation up front. Practically speaking, there is nothing sacrosanct about a college degree. It is the educational system, with its bureaucratic filtering mechanisms, elitism, and status-consciousness that has turned it into a humanist sacrament. Education need not be formal for it to be both valuable to the student and the society he/she lives in.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  I think by "meatheads" GP means people who undervalue education on the basis of "I succeeded without much of it" (failing to understand the contribution of a particular social context to that success) and thereby promote a culture which undermines the context which allowed them to succeed. (The specifical example he gave was people with only a HS diploma, not people without one, but I think that example was, in any case, illustrative of the problem, not an exhaustive equivalence; nor do I think "blue collar workers" is the right generalization from the example.) There's plenty of people (blue collar and otherwise) that succeeded with only (or even without) a HS diploma that don't undervalue education, and they don't meet GP's description of the meatheads he is talking about.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    Well it's not like American education teaches people about social context and how much it matters. That would be Communist.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      What does this even mean? Is this a Markov criticism, or do you really think US public schools don't teach kids about "social contexts"? From what I can tell, as the parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, social contexts and algebra problems are the core of the curricula.
  - wyclif 13y ago
    Thanks, you're right. Note: I edited it for clarity on the point you mentioned.
AndyNemmity 13y ago
I'm a High School drop out with no college education. My family grew up in the inner city and was poor. I work for a large software company and have over 10 years experience in linux system administration. I still live in the inner city. I know other people that are like me in many ways, having well paying jobs and still choosing to live in the city. It's not everyone's plan.

wyclif 13y ago

Meh. I think the "meatheads=people with only HS diplomas" equation is facile. If you're speaking specifically about blue-collar workers, it's still pretty insulting, but you could probably make a better case with that differentiation up front. Practically speaking, there is nothing sacrosanct about a college degree. It is the educational system, with its bureaucratic filtering mechanisms, elitism, and status-consciousness that has turned it into a humanist sacrament. Education need not be formal for it to be both valuable to the student and the society he/she lives in.

dragonwriter 13y ago
I think by "meatheads" GP means people who undervalue education on the basis of "I succeeded without much of it" (failing to understand the contribution of a particular social context to that success) and thereby promote a culture which undermines the context which allowed them to succeed. (The specifical example he gave was people with only a HS diploma, not people without one, but I think that example was, in any case, illustrative of the problem, not an exhaustive equivalence; nor do I think "blue collar workers" is the right generalization from the example.) There's plenty of people (blue collar and otherwise) that succeeded with only (or even without) a HS diploma that don't undervalue education, and they don't meet GP's description of the meatheads he is talking about.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Well it's not like American education teaches people about social context and how much it matters. That would be Communist.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    What does this even mean? Is this a Markov criticism, or do you really think US public schools don't teach kids about "social contexts"? From what I can tell, as the parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, social contexts and algebra problems are the core of the curricula.
- wyclif 13y ago
  Thanks, you're right. Note: I edited it for clarity on the point you mentioned.

AndyNemmity 13y ago

I'm a High School drop out with no college education. My family grew up in the inner city and was poor. I work for a large software company and have over 10 years experience in linux system administration. I still live in the inner city. I know other people that are like me in many ways, having well paying jobs and still choosing to live in the city. It's not everyone's plan.