6 ms·
Some very solid points about the market in general, but I wonder how several of these points (particularly the points about oversupply, baby boomers, etc.) appl
by jonnathanson 13y ago
Some very solid points about the market in general, but I wonder how several of these points (particularly the points about oversupply, baby boomers, etc.) apply to places like SF or Manhattan.
SF, in particular, seems to be extremely young (though that could be observational bias on my part), well-monied, in sharp undersupply of housing, with rent matching or in some cases exceeding the cost of a mortgage.
Historically, it's been a boom-and-bust sort of town as far as housing prices are concerned. And there are always places like the East Bay and the Peninsula to capture some of the demand. But it's not as if the Peninsula is cheap these days, so Oakland seems the more likely candidate to take on the burden (which then raises a thorny question of where all the low-income Oaklanders go when the gentrification accelerates).
But it's conceivable that SF basically becomes the Mahattan of the Bay Area, a playground for the rich, while everyone else gets pushed into the outlying boroughs and beyond. In such a scenario, where money is little object to the buyers determined to own in SF, what happens to pricing?
I don't know anyone who owns a home in SF right now who doesn't think the current prices are insane. (Anecdote: one friend just bought a condo in a new building, and three months later, the closing price for a lesser unit in the same building was $200k higher than what he'd paid for his). But are they actually going south anytime soon? Also: while mortgages and interest rates are great indicators for the housing market in general, SF seems to have an unusually large supply of cash buyers.
In conclusion: I'm not disagreeing with the article, nor am I bullish on the local housing market. I don't fully understand why it's behaving the way it is, and that's never a great sign. But superficially, it seems to be the sort of "microclimate" that doesn't track the aggregate US market very closely. How many of these enclaves of wealth does the US have, or will it have, that seem to have a low to zero beta w/r/t the overall market? And if it's a significant amount, when will speaking in aggregate terms start to lose a bit of meaning?
On a related note, I'd love to see a comparison of urban vs. rural vs. suburban areas across the US. I suspect that concentrated urban centers are obeying very different laws of physics, so to speak, than suburbs and semi-rurals with their huge tracts of overbuilt housing inventory. Example: I used to live in LA, and when the press spoke about how hard-hit LA was during the housing crash, they painted with a pretty big and sloppy brush. The surrounding areas (Inland Empire, etc.) got the plague, but housing in LA proper barely registered a slight cough.
- cyanbane 13y agoSome very solid points about the market in general, but I wonder how several of these points (particularly the points about oversupply, baby boomers, etc.) apply to places like SF or Manhattan. I was just coming to say the same thing. Solid advice, but housing has such metro-geographical differences, 40% of this doesn't line up with my area (Atlanta). Edit: Had 60% went back and modified to 40% after reading again.
- huherto 13y agojhonnathanson's point about SF or Manhattan is very clear. But what is special about Atlanta? Sorry, If I am ignorant, I have never been there.
- mkr-hn 13y agoThere was a flood of people out of Atlanta and into the surrounding counties in two waves during the late '90s and early 2000s. The flood was driven by prices going higher. After the market collapse, there are plenty of empty suburbs going to literal rent-seeking speculators at rock-bottom prices. Something similar could happen in SV if the market cools. Source: Barrow County resident who would have preferred Gwinnett.
- timroman 13y agoI'm in the Atlanta area and purchased a home (out in the burbs ) over the last year. Price there fell significantly (up to 50%) during the last 5 years and have finally started to rise. Supply is much lower than it was even a year ago too. I think there are a lot of generalizations in the article that people have been preaching for a few years now. If you sit on the sidelines and worry about of the potential problems, you're never going to purchase.
- jpmattia 13y ago> but I wonder how several of these points (particularly the points about oversupply, baby boomers, etc.) apply to places like SF or Manhattan. First, it's a bit of a cliché from realtors in every area of the US to say: "It's different here". Sometimes it might be, but when interest rates and cheap money are available nation-wide, it pays to think about what that implies about prices. If buyers were using only their own cash, then you don't have to worry about what interest rates are doing. But if people of varying levels of financial sophistication are competing to purchase, and some of those people are using borrowed funds, then it implies something about how the least sophisticated buyers are going to bid.