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As someone that is friend of people of Serpro.and know some of Air Force research I feel offended. Brazil do have researchers and brains and money, and politic

by speeder 13y ago

As someone that is friend of people of Serpro.and know some of Air Force research I feel offended. Brazil do have researchers and brains and money, and politics get in the way.... We have even particle accelerators of our own design! Also, the rocket project was not scrapped, it is only waiting for new engineers to be trained, since.the last accident killed all of them. Did you knew, that the card to pay a phone is a Brazilian invention? Or the language Lua that drives games like World of Warcraft, Baldur Gate, Far Cry 2... Or that no country matched Petrobras drilling techniques yet, or that our army use locally invented radars, anti-air equipment and so on. Or that the air force has. a locally invented portable air traffic controller station ( for those curious: it runs Debian ), or that CNPQ is investing heavily in research about how to cure heart problems with stem cells, or that the state universities in Sao Paulo are so good with image recognition that French universities send their students here to learn. Brazil has one of the best academia in the planet, heritage of the emperor Pedro II that had the vision and.created the current system, and created stuff like the agronomical research institute. Also we have lots of brilliant people, here ( Carlos lattes for example, that died some time ago ) or elsewhere (I forgot the name of the guy that researches uniting brain with machines, now he works for Duke.University), also we obviously have money Don't insult researchers, we clearly have political problems that end killing cool stuff like the OSORIO battle tank, but don't claim our academia is incompetent, if it was, other countries would not hire people trained.ed here.

ehmuidifici 13y ago
Yeah, I agree that Brazil has a ton of brilliant minds and a very inventive people. But unfortunately, here in Brazil, ignorance is a bliss and a very profitable business. Also, Brazil is the only country that treat treats his researchers like a fast food workers. Poor salaries (when gov. pay something) which obligates them in working on two or three part-time jobs, no gratitude (the phone card, the BINA system, which government didn't helped the inventor on recognizing the patent) and so on. That's why a researcher/cientist stays no more than 2 or 3 years in Brazil after graduation or research publishing.
- speeder 13y ago
  That part, is unfortunately true. My father met the telecom guys (phone card and BINA), and the government not only did not helped, but did things that made their situation worse, in the end no inventor got any money for his invention. It is just that the guy saying that the other poster was wrong, and that we don't know how to do stuff, is not only wrong, but insults people that (maybe in a stupid manner) insists in doing stuff here. There is a reason why one of the biggest Free Software conferences is here in Brazil, and why Maddog (from Linux Foundation) comes here so much (I personally bumped into him in conferences I got invited as speaker about 6 or 7 times, even one totally failed conference where I had like 20 people watching, Maddog was there!), the government invests heavily into IT research. (there is Serpro, Cobra, military, and several other cool stuff! The military in particular has several very insteresting non-weapon projects, the brazillian military seemly loves to make stuff that is good for civilian use)
  - just_testing 13y ago
    Can you cite examples of non-weapon projects of Brazilian military? (seriously, I'm curious here)
    - speeder 13y ago
      ITA (a university that belongs to Air Force) famously let students to opt out of military, and many went around doing cool stuff. I once saw a presentation of their students once, there are even people that went on to make games and stuff like that. Also the military here likes to help Linux in general, even submitting patches, the air force in particular loves Debian and Ubuntu (last I checked, they moved 100% of their servers to Debian and 100% of workstations to Ubuntu) Then we have some air traffic control software being developed, firewalls, anti-virus, whatnot... This is what I learned on tech conferences (thus obviously it is related to tech) Also I've heard of the military helping people make vehicle engines. And then we have Taurus (a weapon manufacturer) that had some business with my family, and seemly the military asked them to do some civilian stuff too (like use their armour technology to make clothes for perilous jobs, for example Motorcycle helmets, also they use their gun steel technology for other things, like construction, building factory machines, car parts...) I think this has to do with that fact that the military here has some... funding issues. And thus need to cooperate a lot with civilian sector to get anything done. Oh, and famously, the army built some stuff for the federal government that ended being on schedule, and used less money than budgeted (that they returned), although this was supposed to be normal, it was so exceptional that people think it is totally amazing and awesome (here federal government projects IF they don't fail outright, tend to blow both the budget and deadlines, and have shitty quality, result of hiring contractors and not checking ever if they are doing a good job or not, plus corruption).
outworlder 13y ago
Yeah, we did all of that. But not much more than that. While we can enumerate Brazil's academic contributions, we can't do the same for, say, they US. And that's the whole point. There are lots of smart people here. They are not producing much of value, for whatever reason.
rbanffy 13y ago
> As someone that is friend of people of Serpro.and know some of Air Force research I feel offended. Don't be. There are pockets of excellence surrounded by fluff. The fact remains that we, as a country, do not produce a lot. We can be proud of a little thing here, a little something else there, but not much more. And it's very sad.
- ttt_ 13y ago
  We also have a cronic underdog syndrome perpetuated by countless broad opinions such as this. That only helps to undermine any kind of effort to change the culture of low self-esteem into a culture of excellence. Feel free to demand more, but please do not undervalue every thing.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    > We also have a cronic underdog syndrome perpetuated by countless broad opinions such as this. You not noticing my acknowledgement of the pockets of excellence further demonstrates this point. I am not perpetuating this underdog syndrome, but I am pointing out several failures brought by a systemic attitude of politeness over correctness. Academic research thrives on correctness alone.

by speeder 13y ago

ehmuidifici 13y ago

Yeah, I agree that Brazil has a ton of brilliant minds and a very inventive people. But unfortunately, here in Brazil, ignorance is a bliss and a very profitable business. Also, Brazil is the only country that treat treats his researchers like a fast food workers. Poor salaries (when gov. pay something) which obligates them in working on two or three part-time jobs, no gratitude (the phone card, the BINA system, which government didn't helped the inventor on recognizing the patent) and so on. That's why a researcher/cientist stays no more than 2 or 3 years in Brazil after graduation or research publishing.

speeder 13y ago
That part, is unfortunately true. My father met the telecom guys (phone card and BINA), and the government not only did not helped, but did things that made their situation worse, in the end no inventor got any money for his invention. It is just that the guy saying that the other poster was wrong, and that we don't know how to do stuff, is not only wrong, but insults people that (maybe in a stupid manner) insists in doing stuff here. There is a reason why one of the biggest Free Software conferences is here in Brazil, and why Maddog (from Linux Foundation) comes here so much (I personally bumped into him in conferences I got invited as speaker about 6 or 7 times, even one totally failed conference where I had like 20 people watching, Maddog was there!), the government invests heavily into IT research. (there is Serpro, Cobra, military, and several other cool stuff! The military in particular has several very insteresting non-weapon projects, the brazillian military seemly loves to make stuff that is good for civilian use)
- just_testing 13y ago
  Can you cite examples of non-weapon projects of Brazilian military? (seriously, I'm curious here)
  - speeder 13y ago
    ITA (a university that belongs to Air Force) famously let students to opt out of military, and many went around doing cool stuff. I once saw a presentation of their students once, there are even people that went on to make games and stuff like that. Also the military here likes to help Linux in general, even submitting patches, the air force in particular loves Debian and Ubuntu (last I checked, they moved 100% of their servers to Debian and 100% of workstations to Ubuntu) Then we have some air traffic control software being developed, firewalls, anti-virus, whatnot... This is what I learned on tech conferences (thus obviously it is related to tech) Also I've heard of the military helping people make vehicle engines. And then we have Taurus (a weapon manufacturer) that had some business with my family, and seemly the military asked them to do some civilian stuff too (like use their armour technology to make clothes for perilous jobs, for example Motorcycle helmets, also they use their gun steel technology for other things, like construction, building factory machines, car parts...) I think this has to do with that fact that the military here has some... funding issues. And thus need to cooperate a lot with civilian sector to get anything done. Oh, and famously, the army built some stuff for the federal government that ended being on schedule, and used less money than budgeted (that they returned), although this was supposed to be normal, it was so exceptional that people think it is totally amazing and awesome (here federal government projects IF they don't fail outright, tend to blow both the budget and deadlines, and have shitty quality, result of hiring contractors and not checking ever if they are doing a good job or not, plus corruption).

outworlder 13y ago

Yeah, we did all of that. But not much more than that. While we can enumerate Brazil's academic contributions, we can't do the same for, say, they US. And that's the whole point. There are lots of smart people here. They are not producing much of value, for whatever reason.

rbanffy 13y ago

> As someone that is friend of people of Serpro.and know some of Air Force research I feel offended. Don't be. There are pockets of excellence surrounded by fluff. The fact remains that we, as a country, do not produce a lot. We can be proud of a little thing here, a little something else there, but not much more. And it's very sad.

ttt_ 13y ago
We also have a cronic underdog syndrome perpetuated by countless broad opinions such as this. That only helps to undermine any kind of effort to change the culture of low self-esteem into a culture of excellence. Feel free to demand more, but please do not undervalue every thing.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  > We also have a cronic underdog syndrome perpetuated by countless broad opinions such as this. You not noticing my acknowledgement of the pockets of excellence further demonstrates this point. I am not perpetuating this underdog syndrome, but I am pointing out several failures brought by a systemic attitude of politeness over correctness. Academic research thrives on correctness alone.