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> If you have ever run into a Christian who just assumed you were lying when you told them that you were an atheist, this is why they thought that. By the way,

> If you have ever run into a Christian who just assumed you were lying when you told them that you were an atheist, this is why they thought that. By the way, Dennett talked about the reverse: how the Church itself lies: more specifically, priests won't try and correct the beliefs of their parishioners (like, such and such depiction of a miracle was actually just a symbol), lest they destroy their faith altogether.

saraid216 13y ago
Brutal honesty is not less brutal because it is honest, though. Different people prefer different amounts of brutality and honesty. In my experience, I've found that the honesty stops mattering after a while: all that I see is brutality.
- loup-vaillant 13y ago
  When someone wouldn't change one's mind, being brutal about the truth rarely helps. But one can be gentle about it. Sometimes however, contradicting one's belief is perceived as a brutal attack no matter what. When I perceive this, I tend to give up. The most brutal thing of all however is changing your mind. It tend to come with a terrible sense of loss, even though that grief is rarely warranted. Plus, many religious people strongly believe that religious belief is good, even when they're less sure about their accuracy. Tell them something convincing about God not existing, and they could panic. Most of the time, they will cling to their beliefs by sheer force of will. Personally, I avoid that problem by noticing that I'm not entitled to my opinion. I'm not free to believe whatever I want. I just hope I'm strong enough to let evidence change my mind whenever it should.
  - cgore 13y ago
    They have probably seen just as many proofs for God, but from people they trust more than you.
cgore 13y ago
The traditional view is that the miracles weren't just symbolic, but actual historic events (that had intentional symbolic meaning), and most priests would subscribe to the traditional view; so they aren't lying, just being consistent with their views. What you are referencing is the "Liberal Christianity" of the 1800's, but it is generally an unpopular set of views. Wikipedia's page is a bit short but a useful overview of the differences: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity
- loup-vaillant 13y ago
  > What you are referencing is the "Liberal Christianity" of the 1800's, but it is generally an unpopular set of views. Unpopular in the US population, definitely. Unpopular among US priests, I wouldn't know, but I believe you. Unpopular among European priests… I would be much less confident.
  - cgore 13y ago
    I rarely talk to priests, in the US or outside (I'm Lutheran, not Catholic), so I wouldn't know. I always got the impression that most Catholics took the Gospel account pretty literally though.

saraid216 13y ago

Brutal honesty is not less brutal because it is honest, though. Different people prefer different amounts of brutality and honesty. In my experience, I've found that the honesty stops mattering after a while: all that I see is brutality.

loup-vaillant 13y ago
When someone wouldn't change one's mind, being brutal about the truth rarely helps. But one can be gentle about it. Sometimes however, contradicting one's belief is perceived as a brutal attack no matter what. When I perceive this, I tend to give up. The most brutal thing of all however is changing your mind. It tend to come with a terrible sense of loss, even though that grief is rarely warranted. Plus, many religious people strongly believe that religious belief is good, even when they're less sure about their accuracy. Tell them something convincing about God not existing, and they could panic. Most of the time, they will cling to their beliefs by sheer force of will. Personally, I avoid that problem by noticing that I'm not entitled to my opinion. I'm not free to believe whatever I want. I just hope I'm strong enough to let evidence change my mind whenever it should.
- cgore 13y ago
  They have probably seen just as many proofs for God, but from people they trust more than you.

cgore 13y ago

The traditional view is that the miracles weren't just symbolic, but actual historic events (that had intentional symbolic meaning), and most priests would subscribe to the traditional view; so they aren't lying, just being consistent with their views. What you are referencing is the "Liberal Christianity" of the 1800's, but it is generally an unpopular set of views. Wikipedia's page is a bit short but a useful overview of the differences: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Christianity

loup-vaillant 13y ago
> What you are referencing is the "Liberal Christianity" of the 1800's, but it is generally an unpopular set of views. Unpopular in the US population, definitely. Unpopular among US priests, I wouldn't know, but I believe you. Unpopular among European priests… I would be much less confident.
- cgore 13y ago
  I rarely talk to priests, in the US or outside (I'm Lutheran, not Catholic), so I wouldn't know. I always got the impression that most Catholics took the Gospel account pretty literally though.