7 ms·

Reddit bans subreddit dedicated to finding the Navy Yard shooters

22 points by tshtf 13y ago

xutopia 13y ago
Yet they won't ban a subreddit extolling the virtues of giving women, any women, a beating.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- rmc 13y ago
  Yep, only some form of protected speech are banned. The proctected speech that's possible to attach real world consequences to people who advocate for beating women.
  - aroch 13y ago
    You have no protected speech on reddit; they aren't the USG and by no means have to comply with the first amendment. So get off of your high horse, they're allowed to enforce their policies how they feel fit. Edit: Also, you're going to have a hard time getting a favorable interpretation of True Threat Doctrine from a court -- which is really the only reason why it would be removed.
    - tomjen3 13y ago
      Reddit has said over and over again that they won't police content on their site, unless it is one of a few things, doxing among them, or it is illegal.
      - rmc 13y ago
        or it is illegal. Illegal in USA. Doxxing is not illegal in USA but they ban it.
    - rmc 13y ago
      Yes, I know they are not the USG. But they claim the support the ideas of free speech.
      - aroch 13y ago
        If you know they're not the USG then you know your posted opinion is bullshit. There is no country out there with truly "free" speech because not all speech was made equal. Reddit has it's own set of acceptable speech requirements -- one of those requirements is no posting of other's personal information.
  - ahoy 13y ago
    Reddit can ban whatever speech on their website they please, as can McDonalds, ACE Hardware, the local YMCA, and the local Green Party.
- diminoten 13y ago
  Yep, you can't yell, "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
t0 13y ago
Edited: Public opinion went down on the Boston Bombings. Money was lost. In the interest of money, someone decided not to do the same thing again. Whether this was the right call comes second.
- sp332 13y ago
  It was a pretty clear violation of existing policy. And I'm glad they jumped on it quickly, after the mess that happened with the Boston bombing.
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  > Rather than do what's right, they're now more concerned with public image? That's always been true. Their justification is legitimate if it was actually the reason for the ban, which after the /r/FactualFalcon debacle last month is dubious: > Erik Martin from reddit tells us: "We banned it because it violated site rules by encouraging the posting of personal information. The quote from the side bar that subreddit that was banned said "no personal information about leads unless you are really sure." We do not allow the posting of personal information under any circumstances."
  - t0 13y ago
    But how can you go from "no personal information about leads unless you are really sure" to NOTHING? Is it correct to sacrifice catching the bad guy to protect the small chance that someone is wrongly accused? Reddit now simply holds their public image higher than justice. I would wager investors and senior management who have a financial interest made this decision.
    - tedunangst 13y ago
      Yes.
    - peterwwillis 13y ago
      No Reddit thread is going to "catch the bad guy". Professionals who have access to all possible information will. There is no "justice" Reddit can do. It's just a forum full of bored idiots, not an FBI forensics team. Please remove your head from your ass.
amerika_blog 13y ago
Reddit continues to play whack-a-mole with controversy, ignoring the fact that using /r/SRS and /r/SRD to police a social media site into political correctness will produce inevitable blowback.
- ketralnis 13y ago
  It's almost like the admins, the contributors to vigilante subreddits, contributors to SRS/SRD, and in fact everyone on reddit are different people or something.
  - mbrutsch 13y ago
    What would you know about it, jack?
    - amerika_blog 13y ago
      I haven't trusted that site since they allowed a shock-journalist to dox one of their most productive members.
  - amerika_blog 13y ago
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collusion http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collusion Helpful link above.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I guess Reddit thinks that sort of thing is best left to 4chan.
vezzy-fnord 13y ago
I suppose they don't want to encourage vigilantism? Either way, I remember last time during the Boston bombings when 4chan and Reddit users had purportedly unearthed a conspiracy that Blackwater guards were involved, which caused a buzz but later turned out to be an immense red herring. As for troll havens, that's always been part of their culture, so no surprise there.
debacle 13y ago
This is not really news. Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people, and you can't really collaboratively determine the identity of someone without doing so.
- parfe 13y ago
  >Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people That is verifiably untrue. Reddit admins permitted the Boston bomber witch hunt to continue and didn't issue an apology for a full week. Reddit had wrongly and emphatically accused a missing student of being the perpetrator. Reddit admins permitted the continued doxxing and harassment of a preacher who left a bad tip. The reddit CEO previously issued a statement saying "We do believe that doxxing is a form of violence, rather unique to the internet. " yet allowed the preacher harassment to continue unabated. Compare that to ViolentAcrez being outed where the Reddit admins immediately instituted a site-wide ban for the story. Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing, and why. For more on reddit's fluid doxxing policies see: http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-paradox/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-paradox/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-questions-about-reddits-stance-on-free-speech/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-questions-...
  - amerika_blog 13y ago
    > Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing, and why. If you agree with the official Ideology, I think you're safe. Otherwise, you're the enemy. The whole site is /r/politics with a vigilante twist.
    - aroch 13y ago
      I take it someone's mad that their "blog" was banned or ridiculed?
rmc 13y ago
Fun fact: Reddit (& the main culture) is a big fan of "Free Speech" (in the US sense), however reddit bans one form of protected speech: doxxing.
- herge 13y ago
  Eh, not allowing that subreddit is just Reddit exercising their freedom of the press.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Doxxing isn't necessarily protected. You're assuming a correctly identified suspect (truth being an absolute defense to a charge of libel, in the US) but there's abundant evidence that a crowd can get carried away, rationalizing what turns out to be a quite incorrect identification.
- ianstallings 13y ago
  Reddit has free speech too. It works both ways.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > Reddit has free speech too. Actually, Reddit doesn't have free speech. Reddit moderators are famous for enforcing their personal views by banning, or threatening to ban, people who express dissenting views. The level of censorship is so high that one wonders whether those doing the censoring even understand what free speech refers to. Example: http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html
    - aroch 13y ago
      It appears that ianstallings means "Reddit is using its own, personal, free speech to say 'no' to things".
      - lutusp 13y ago
        Okay, I think that's a fair interpretation, and there's some truth to it. Moderators are also voices and also have speech rights. This particular moderator contacted me privately and threatened me with banning if I kept dissenting from a certain popular view. The fact that it was a private communication made it more of a gangster tactic than free speech.
michaelbuckbee 13y ago
Post the Boston Bombing they apologized for mis-identification of people from the threads: http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-boston-crisis.html http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-boston-...
ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
So Reddit is responsible for subreddits when someone gets accused by a mob but weapons manufacturers are not responsible when their guns are used to murder. I don't believe this, I just find the serendipity ironic.
- Asterick6 13y ago
  This isn't even a valid comparison.
  - ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
    Unfair maybe, but valid. The pro-gun lobby considers guns to be a tool and in no way a contributing factor to the escalation of violence ergo manufacturers have no responsibility. Websites are commonly blamed for the activities of their users, when in fact all it is is a tool for communication.
consider_this 13y ago
Reddit is a business, despite so many trying to convince themselves otherwise. Businesses don't like negative publicity. This is not new information. After the Boston bonanza Reddit is going to squash anything that looks even remotely like it.

22 points by tshtf 13y ago

xutopia 13y ago

Yet they won't ban a subreddit extolling the virtues of giving women, any women, a beating.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rmc 13y ago
Yep, only some form of protected speech are banned. The proctected speech that's possible to attach real world consequences to people who advocate for beating women.
- aroch 13y ago
  You have no protected speech on reddit; they aren't the USG and by no means have to comply with the first amendment. So get off of your high horse, they're allowed to enforce their policies how they feel fit. Edit: Also, you're going to have a hard time getting a favorable interpretation of True Threat Doctrine from a court -- which is really the only reason why it would be removed.
  - tomjen3 13y ago
    Reddit has said over and over again that they won't police content on their site, unless it is one of a few things, doxing among them, or it is illegal.
    - rmc 13y ago
      or it is illegal. Illegal in USA. Doxxing is not illegal in USA but they ban it.
  - rmc 13y ago
    Yes, I know they are not the USG. But they claim the support the ideas of free speech.
    - aroch 13y ago
      If you know they're not the USG then you know your posted opinion is bullshit. There is no country out there with truly "free" speech because not all speech was made equal. Reddit has it's own set of acceptable speech requirements -- one of those requirements is no posting of other's personal information.
- ahoy 13y ago
  Reddit can ban whatever speech on their website they please, as can McDonalds, ACE Hardware, the local YMCA, and the local Green Party.
diminoten 13y ago
Yep, you can't yell, "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

t0 13y ago

Edited: Public opinion went down on the Boston Bombings. Money was lost. In the interest of money, someone decided not to do the same thing again. Whether this was the right call comes second.

sp332 13y ago
It was a pretty clear violation of existing policy. And I'm glad they jumped on it quickly, after the mess that happened with the Boston bombing.
amerika_blog 13y ago
> Rather than do what's right, they're now more concerned with public image? That's always been true. Their justification is legitimate if it was actually the reason for the ban, which after the /r/FactualFalcon debacle last month is dubious: > Erik Martin from reddit tells us: "We banned it because it violated site rules by encouraging the posting of personal information. The quote from the side bar that subreddit that was banned said "no personal information about leads unless you are really sure." We do not allow the posting of personal information under any circumstances."
- t0 13y ago
  But how can you go from "no personal information about leads unless you are really sure" to NOTHING? Is it correct to sacrifice catching the bad guy to protect the small chance that someone is wrongly accused? Reddit now simply holds their public image higher than justice. I would wager investors and senior management who have a financial interest made this decision.
  - tedunangst 13y ago
    Yes.
  - peterwwillis 13y ago
    No Reddit thread is going to "catch the bad guy". Professionals who have access to all possible information will. There is no "justice" Reddit can do. It's just a forum full of bored idiots, not an FBI forensics team. Please remove your head from your ass.

amerika_blog 13y ago

Reddit continues to play whack-a-mole with controversy, ignoring the fact that using /r/SRS and /r/SRD to police a social media site into political correctness will produce inevitable blowback.

ketralnis 13y ago
It's almost like the admins, the contributors to vigilante subreddits, contributors to SRS/SRD, and in fact everyone on reddit are different people or something.
- mbrutsch 13y ago
  What would you know about it, jack?
  - amerika_blog 13y ago
    I haven't trusted that site since they allowed a shock-journalist to dox one of their most productive members.
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collusion http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collusion Helpful link above.

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

I guess Reddit thinks that sort of thing is best left to 4chan.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

I suppose they don't want to encourage vigilantism? Either way, I remember last time during the Boston bombings when 4chan and Reddit users had purportedly unearthed a conspiracy that Blackwater guards were involved, which caused a buzz but later turned out to be an immense red herring. As for troll havens, that's always been part of their culture, so no surprise there.

debacle 13y ago

This is not really news. Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people, and you can't really collaboratively determine the identity of someone without doing so.

parfe 13y ago
>Reddit has always been against "doxxing" people That is verifiably untrue. Reddit admins permitted the Boston bomber witch hunt to continue and didn't issue an apology for a full week. Reddit had wrongly and emphatically accused a missing student of being the perpetrator. Reddit admins permitted the continued doxxing and harassment of a preacher who left a bad tip. The reddit CEO previously issued a statement saying "We do believe that doxxing is a form of violence, rather unique to the internet. " yet allowed the preacher harassment to continue unabated. Compare that to ViolentAcrez being outed where the Reddit admins immediately instituted a site-wide ban for the story. Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing, and why. For more on reddit's fluid doxxing policies see: http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-paradox/ http://www.popehat.com/2013/02/04/reddits-doxxing-paradox/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-questions-about-reddits-stance-on-free-speech/ http://www.popehat.com/2012/10/17/follow-up-a-few-questions-...
- amerika_blog 13y ago
  > Reddit is entirely arbitrary with who it chooses to protect from doxxing, and why. If you agree with the official Ideology, I think you're safe. Otherwise, you're the enemy. The whole site is /r/politics with a vigilante twist.
  - aroch 13y ago
    I take it someone's mad that their "blog" was banned or ridiculed?

rmc 13y ago

Fun fact: Reddit (& the main culture) is a big fan of "Free Speech" (in the US sense), however reddit bans one form of protected speech: doxxing.

herge 13y ago
Eh, not allowing that subreddit is just Reddit exercising their freedom of the press.
anigbrowl 13y ago
Doxxing isn't necessarily protected. You're assuming a correctly identified suspect (truth being an absolute defense to a charge of libel, in the US) but there's abundant evidence that a crowd can get carried away, rationalizing what turns out to be a quite incorrect identification.
ianstallings 13y ago
Reddit has free speech too. It works both ways.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Reddit has free speech too. Actually, Reddit doesn't have free speech. Reddit moderators are famous for enforcing their personal views by banning, or threatening to ban, people who express dissenting views. The level of censorship is so high that one wonders whether those doing the censoring even understand what free speech refers to. Example: http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html http://arachnoid.com/psychology/reddit_psychology.html
  - aroch 13y ago
    It appears that ianstallings means "Reddit is using its own, personal, free speech to say 'no' to things".
    - lutusp 13y ago
      Okay, I think that's a fair interpretation, and there's some truth to it. Moderators are also voices and also have speech rights. This particular moderator contacted me privately and threatened me with banning if I kept dissenting from a certain popular view. The fact that it was a private communication made it more of a gangster tactic than free speech.

michaelbuckbee 13y ago

Post the Boston Bombing they apologized for mis-identification of people from the threads: http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-boston-crisis.html http://blog.reddit.com/2013/04/reflections-on-recent-boston-...

ChikkaChiChi 13y ago

So Reddit is responsible for subreddits when someone gets accused by a mob but weapons manufacturers are not responsible when their guns are used to murder. I don't believe this, I just find the serendipity ironic.

Asterick6 13y ago
This isn't even a valid comparison.
- ChikkaChiChi 13y ago
  Unfair maybe, but valid. The pro-gun lobby considers guns to be a tool and in no way a contributing factor to the escalation of violence ergo manufacturers have no responsibility. Websites are commonly blamed for the activities of their users, when in fact all it is is a tool for communication.

consider_this 13y ago

Reddit is a business, despite so many trying to convince themselves otherwise. Businesses don't like negative publicity. This is not new information. After the Boston bonanza Reddit is going to squash anything that looks even remotely like it.