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... I've known about the widening orbit of the moon, but I only just realized that if the moon was rotating in a different direction, it would eventually spiral

... I've known about the widening orbit of the moon, but I only just realized that if the moon was rotating in a different direction, it would eventually spiral down to the earth. Imagine living on such a planet, with a large gravity capture moon, that provides a definite sell by date to living on the surface.

mixmastamyk 13y ago
Was thinking about that too. It is sad that the moon is leaving us, but the opposite would be a lot worse. Could we survive such an event? Perhaps by chilling on Mars for a few thousand? years.
- Tuna-Fish 13y ago
  Few thousand would be lowballing it rather lot. An impact of that magnitude would melt the entire surface, boil the oceans, and strip off the atmosphere. It would take hundreds of millions of years for earth to recover, if it ever would. Also, Mars is not that hospitable to life. The best option I see would be putting as much people and industry in orbit as possible, and try to live from asteroids.
  - ars 13y ago
    > An impact of that magnitude It wouldn't be an impact. For the moon to reduce its orbit to the point that it impacted the earth it would be moving rather slow as orbital objects go. It would be more of a gradual merging as chunks of rock and ocean moved between the two bodies.
    - rohansingh 13y ago
      Exactly. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit Basically, in this scenario the moon would either come down in chunks or would form a set of rings.
      - mixmastamyk 13y ago
        Yes, I was thinking a -3.8cm per year rate, and did contemplate the "squishing" that the moon Io has to deal with. Just pulled the timeframe from my rear end, probably would take that long just to get the process started. :/
  - bronson 13y ago
    As inhospitable as Mars is, asteroids and space stations are far worse!
    - mixmastamyk 13y ago
      Yep, and faced with an end-of-life event we'd probably make a go of it, no?
  - anonymous 13y ago
    > Mars is not that hospitable to life I've always found it rather interesting how the combined mass of Mars and Venus is just about the same as Earth's. Can't we move Venus out to a higher orbit where it would impact with Mars and produce an Earth 2?
    - mixmastamyk 13y ago
      I've thought the same thing... assumed we'd need alien help. Someone very powerful, like species 8472 but friendlier.
- deleted 13y ago
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Nursie 13y ago
We already have a sell-by date. Long before the sun goes red giant, in fact in about a billion years from now, solar output will increase to the point that liquid water (and therefore life) will be impossible on the surface of the earth.
deleted 13y ago
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ars 13y ago
In such a world all the extra energy would have to be captured by tides. Right now a portion of the energy is used to "fling" the moon farther away, and a portion is used by tides. In the other scenario not only is all the energy available to tides, but you also have the extra added energy of the moon "falling" toward the earth. I'm not sure tides could capture such energy without smoothing the borders of the oceans, which would cause less friction, and then consequently less momentum transfer to the moon.
MichaelApproved 13y ago
Wouldn't the moon leaving the Earth's orbit give us a sell-by date too? I thought the removal of a large object like the moon would change our orbit as well, causing things to be dramatically different on Earth. Is that wrong? What would happen to the Earth when the moon breaks away?
- andrewflnr 13y ago
  That's a pretty big if, actually. It may be possible for the earth to give up all its angular momentum without giving the moon enough energy to escape. But then we have eternal day and night on opposite sides of earth, so that's probably not a big improvement.
  - adaml_623 13y ago
    Actually the angular momentum transfer will stop when the moons orbit is the same length as the earth's rotation. So earth would still have day and night but would only have 10-12 per year.

mixmastamyk 13y ago

Was thinking about that too. It is sad that the moon is leaving us, but the opposite would be a lot worse. Could we survive such an event? Perhaps by chilling on Mars for a few thousand? years.

Tuna-Fish 13y ago
Few thousand would be lowballing it rather lot. An impact of that magnitude would melt the entire surface, boil the oceans, and strip off the atmosphere. It would take hundreds of millions of years for earth to recover, if it ever would. Also, Mars is not that hospitable to life. The best option I see would be putting as much people and industry in orbit as possible, and try to live from asteroids.
- ars 13y ago
  > An impact of that magnitude It wouldn't be an impact. For the moon to reduce its orbit to the point that it impacted the earth it would be moving rather slow as orbital objects go. It would be more of a gradual merging as chunks of rock and ocean moved between the two bodies.
  - rohansingh 13y ago
    Exactly. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roche_limit Basically, in this scenario the moon would either come down in chunks or would form a set of rings.
    - mixmastamyk 13y ago
      Yes, I was thinking a -3.8cm per year rate, and did contemplate the "squishing" that the moon Io has to deal with. Just pulled the timeframe from my rear end, probably would take that long just to get the process started. :/
- bronson 13y ago
  As inhospitable as Mars is, asteroids and space stations are far worse!
  - mixmastamyk 13y ago
    Yep, and faced with an end-of-life event we'd probably make a go of it, no?
- anonymous 13y ago
  > Mars is not that hospitable to life I've always found it rather interesting how the combined mass of Mars and Venus is just about the same as Earth's. Can't we move Venus out to a higher orbit where it would impact with Mars and produce an Earth 2?
  - mixmastamyk 13y ago
    I've thought the same thing... assumed we'd need alien help. Someone very powerful, like species 8472 but friendlier.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

Nursie 13y ago

We already have a sell-by date. Long before the sun goes red giant, in fact in about a billion years from now, solar output will increase to the point that liquid water (and therefore life) will be impossible on the surface of the earth.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ars 13y ago

In such a world all the extra energy would have to be captured by tides. Right now a portion of the energy is used to "fling" the moon farther away, and a portion is used by tides. In the other scenario not only is all the energy available to tides, but you also have the extra added energy of the moon "falling" toward the earth. I'm not sure tides could capture such energy without smoothing the borders of the oceans, which would cause less friction, and then consequently less momentum transfer to the moon.

MichaelApproved 13y ago

Wouldn't the moon leaving the Earth's orbit give us a sell-by date too? I thought the removal of a large object like the moon would change our orbit as well, causing things to be dramatically different on Earth. Is that wrong? What would happen to the Earth when the moon breaks away?

andrewflnr 13y ago
That's a pretty big if, actually. It may be possible for the earth to give up all its angular momentum without giving the moon enough energy to escape. But then we have eternal day and night on opposite sides of earth, so that's probably not a big improvement.
- adaml_623 13y ago
  Actually the angular momentum transfer will stop when the moons orbit is the same length as the earth's rotation. So earth would still have day and night but would only have 10-12 per year.