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This outburst sounds universal and profound, but really has a narrow target audience. It's good for preaching to the choir, but it can only persuade minds that

This outburst sounds universal and profound, but really has a narrow target audience. It's good for preaching to the choir, but it can only persuade minds that are already on the brink of change. What's more, the realization that the world is a "ride" should not be the last stop of your growth. It's nice to know that others don't dictate your life, that you have the power to choose your own balance of work, personal, social, and political activity. Once you know that, you still have to choose. And some of us choose to work a lot, because our projects are aligned with our core values and we want to change the world. Don't mistake our choice of hard work for thoughtless servitude. There are many people like that on HN, and nobody's trying to kill us.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
yason 17y ago
I think that taking the ride seriously means working on wrong things for wrong reasons, whatever the "wrong" means with regard to each individual. It doesn't mean all work and money is bad. However, it suggests that money can't be a top-priority if you intend to work for your core values and change the world. If it is, all you ever get done is moving money from one place to another and nothing ever changes. To change the world, you just stop worrying and go make attempts at it, and then trust that you'll get enough money somewhere to keep your world-changing efforts uninterrupted. It is my guess that many people on HN have these things much better aligned in their lives than a big proportion of non-HN people. The thought of being trapped in something you don't believe in for the sake of money and possessions probably appears a rather unsettling idea on this forum.
- bad_user 17y ago
  > The thought of being trapped in something you don't believe in for the sake of money and possessions probably appears a rather unsettling idea on this forum. I'm trapped in something I don't believe in for the sake of living, not possessions. I've been trapped in creating outsourced business applications ever since I started working for money, and I really haven't had any choice in this matter. I absolutely hate it, and while I see ways out of it, it's really hard taking the jump to something I like, especially since I'm trapped in a country where little value is put on creativity and where little help is offered to startups. My only hope is that I'll be able to create something I like in my spare time and make money off that in spite of me not living in a friendlier environment.
- dasil003 17y ago
  Let's not get too self-congratulatory. I would suspect that a larger-than-average percentage of entrepreneurs and people around the valley (ie. HN members) work as hard as they do not to change the world, but as a form of escapism. That's not a judgement--it's difficult enough to peel the onion of one's own personality let alone others--but just an illustration of how I don't really buy into the idea of "wanting to change the world" (whatever that really means) as being inherently good or well-aligned. As with all things, it depends on the individual and the true state of their mental and social health.
mannicken 17y ago
But how come so many people are talking about burnout and stress of a start-up? It sounds like the allure of money and prestige is keeping startupers at work, sort of like an invisible god or invisible slavemaster that they created in their brain. But if they could understand that money will be gone, prestige will disappear, their little software they did to "change the world" will soon be gone, would they work that hard? If yes -- great, but then there wouldn't be no stress because an ultimate anaesthesia is coming and it's going to make everything as meaningless as the stuff you build in dreams. If no -- they're trapped, deluded by an illusion that anything we do in this world matters, that it's possible to change the world, that we're even going somewhere as human species. Which is just an illusion as we're all terminally ill and there is no escape. When you dream, don't you worry about things that happen there as well? And don't you feel sad you didn't take advantage of the fact that it's a dream: that you didn't jump off buildings, fly, shoot from large grenade launchers? Well, life is a similarly shaped dream just a bit sharper and longer and more brightly colored. Just a dream though, nothing matters :)
- seregine 17y ago
  "Nothing matters" is a recipe for despair, not happiness :) Sure, money and glory are shallow motivations. Dig deeper, though, and you'll find that people aren't as shallow as they seem - money can be a means to gain freedom, glory a confirmation from fellow humans that your accomplishment has lasting value. I'm motivated by the satisfaction of doing something well, the "aha!" moments of learning, the knowledge that I am becoming more like the person I want to be. But even these joys are as transient as money and glory. I will die, but maybe, if I get good enough at what I do, I can make a lasting difference that improves the world for current and future people like our ancestors improved it for us. In your face, death! I don't want to change your mind, merely explaining why I disagree. Our different notions of "the good life" may be rooted in fundamental personality differences, even biology. If some of those stressed out startup people are like you - they should stop and understand themselves. Some of them are like me, and they should push on. I believe people generally know to do what's best for them. It's when we assume to know what's best for others that we get in trouble. Finally, people change. Ten years from now, you and I could both flip sides.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

yason 17y ago

I think that taking the ride seriously means working on wrong things for wrong reasons, whatever the "wrong" means with regard to each individual. It doesn't mean all work and money is bad. However, it suggests that money can't be a top-priority if you intend to work for your core values and change the world. If it is, all you ever get done is moving money from one place to another and nothing ever changes. To change the world, you just stop worrying and go make attempts at it, and then trust that you'll get enough money somewhere to keep your world-changing efforts uninterrupted. It is my guess that many people on HN have these things much better aligned in their lives than a big proportion of non-HN people. The thought of being trapped in something you don't believe in for the sake of money and possessions probably appears a rather unsettling idea on this forum.

bad_user 17y ago
> The thought of being trapped in something you don't believe in for the sake of money and possessions probably appears a rather unsettling idea on this forum. I'm trapped in something I don't believe in for the sake of living, not possessions. I've been trapped in creating outsourced business applications ever since I started working for money, and I really haven't had any choice in this matter. I absolutely hate it, and while I see ways out of it, it's really hard taking the jump to something I like, especially since I'm trapped in a country where little value is put on creativity and where little help is offered to startups. My only hope is that I'll be able to create something I like in my spare time and make money off that in spite of me not living in a friendlier environment.
dasil003 17y ago
Let's not get too self-congratulatory. I would suspect that a larger-than-average percentage of entrepreneurs and people around the valley (ie. HN members) work as hard as they do not to change the world, but as a form of escapism. That's not a judgement--it's difficult enough to peel the onion of one's own personality let alone others--but just an illustration of how I don't really buy into the idea of "wanting to change the world" (whatever that really means) as being inherently good or well-aligned. As with all things, it depends on the individual and the true state of their mental and social health.

mannicken 17y ago

But how come so many people are talking about burnout and stress of a start-up? It sounds like the allure of money and prestige is keeping startupers at work, sort of like an invisible god or invisible slavemaster that they created in their brain. But if they could understand that money will be gone, prestige will disappear, their little software they did to "change the world" will soon be gone, would they work that hard? If yes -- great, but then there wouldn't be no stress because an ultimate anaesthesia is coming and it's going to make everything as meaningless as the stuff you build in dreams. If no -- they're trapped, deluded by an illusion that anything we do in this world matters, that it's possible to change the world, that we're even going somewhere as human species. Which is just an illusion as we're all terminally ill and there is no escape. When you dream, don't you worry about things that happen there as well? And don't you feel sad you didn't take advantage of the fact that it's a dream: that you didn't jump off buildings, fly, shoot from large grenade launchers? Well, life is a similarly shaped dream just a bit sharper and longer and more brightly colored. Just a dream though, nothing matters :)

seregine 17y ago
"Nothing matters" is a recipe for despair, not happiness :) Sure, money and glory are shallow motivations. Dig deeper, though, and you'll find that people aren't as shallow as they seem - money can be a means to gain freedom, glory a confirmation from fellow humans that your accomplishment has lasting value. I'm motivated by the satisfaction of doing something well, the "aha!" moments of learning, the knowledge that I am becoming more like the person I want to be. But even these joys are as transient as money and glory. I will die, but maybe, if I get good enough at what I do, I can make a lasting difference that improves the world for current and future people like our ancestors improved it for us. In your face, death! I don't want to change your mind, merely explaining why I disagree. Our different notions of "the good life" may be rooted in fundamental personality differences, even biology. If some of those stressed out startup people are like you - they should stop and understand themselves. Some of them are like me, and they should push on. I believe people generally know to do what's best for them. It's when we assume to know what's best for others that we get in trouble. Finally, people change. Ten years from now, you and I could both flip sides.