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I'm pointing out that if the authors wrote an article titled "Male humans plan their travel route up to one day in advance and communicate it to other members

I'm pointing out that if the authors wrote an article titled "Male humans plan their travel route up to one day in advance and communicate it to other members of their species," the authors would be called out in the comments on how human females are just as capable of doing so and how their paper is incredibly derogatory to women. Comments like that are notably missing from this thread even though humans and orangutans are closely related and would share similar low-level social structures.

benjoffe 13y ago
Do you think it's wrong to report about orangutans in this fashion even if it's true? I don't understand your point. Edit: also, your mention that comments like this are "notably missing from this thread" makes little sense when there's currently only one other root comment against the post.
andrewcooke 13y ago
you don't think the difference could be that in the hypothetical case it would be common knowledge that women and men are equally capable of this, but in the paper they are reporting on observations that, so far, only show the behaviour for males? in other words, feminists aren't robots that detect syntactic patterns and automatically complain about them. rather, there's actual reasoning and experience behind the objections.
btilly 13y ago
Comments like that are notably missing from this thread even though humans and orangutans are closely related and would share similar low-level social structures. If this is true, then it involves truths that I am quite sure you would not want to hear about. Our closest living relative is the chimpanzee. The average adult male chimp has sex an average of once per hour. The only difference between a mating display and a threat display is the erection. Females object an average of 1% of the time in which case it becomes clear that the similarity between mating displays and threat displays goes further than a superficial visual similarity. (Do keep in mind that any healthy adult chimp - of either gender - is stronger than any human weightlifter.) Rape in chimpanzees is neither uncommon nor frowned upon. This behavior starts young. In fact while males are not grown enough to be unable to subdue adult females on their own, their mothers will assist them in subduing low ranking females of their choice. Yes, this is exactly what it sounds like. There may indeed be low level social similarities between chimps and humans. But if so, they are not similarities that we would feel comfortable admitting to. If the topic interests you, for further reading I would suggest Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors by Carl Sagan and Anne Druyan. Among other things it is the source of the facts that I just quoted for you. And as a final thought, one of strongest cross-primate similarities is a connection between sex and dominance. The phrase, "Fuck you!" has echoes far and wide among our relatives.
mjbrownie 13y ago
There is a significant degree of sexual dimorphism within the orangutan species (130 kilo+ adult males compared to around 35 kilo females)- far greater than humans. That any comparison to human behavior cannot be implied. Just take it as it is. If it makes you feel better, wild female orangutan mothers are capable of teaching their children over 180 food sources during a nurturing period lasting over 10 years. Impressive stuff.

benjoffe 13y ago

Do you think it's wrong to report about orangutans in this fashion even if it's true? I don't understand your point. Edit: also, your mention that comments like this are "notably missing from this thread" makes little sense when there's currently only one other root comment against the post.

andrewcooke 13y ago

you don't think the difference could be that in the hypothetical case it would be common knowledge that women and men are equally capable of this, but in the paper they are reporting on observations that, so far, only show the behaviour for males? in other words, feminists aren't robots that detect syntactic patterns and automatically complain about them. rather, there's actual reasoning and experience behind the objections.

btilly 13y ago

Comments like that are notably missing from this thread even though humans and orangutans are closely related and would share similar low-level social structures. If this is true, then it involves truths that I am quite sure you would not want to hear about. Our closest living relative is the chimpanzee. The average adult male chimp has sex an average of once per hour. The only difference between a mating display and a threat display is the erection. Females object an average of 1% of the time in which case it becomes clear that the similarity between mating displays and threat displays goes further than a superficial visual similarity. (Do keep in mind that any healthy adult chimp - of either gender - is stronger than any human weightlifter.) Rape in chimpanzees is neither uncommon nor frowned upon. This behavior starts young. In fact while males are not grown enough to be unable to subdue adult females on their own, their mothers will assist them in subduing low ranking females of their choice. Yes, this is exactly what it sounds like. There may indeed be low level social similarities between chimps and humans. But if so, they are not similarities that we would feel comfortable admitting to. If the topic interests you, for further reading I would suggest Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors by Carl Sagan and Anne Druyan. Among other things it is the source of the facts that I just quoted for you. And as a final thought, one of strongest cross-primate similarities is a connection between sex and dominance. The phrase, "Fuck you!" has echoes far and wide among our relatives.

mjbrownie 13y ago

There is a significant degree of sexual dimorphism within the orangutan species (130 kilo+ adult males compared to around 35 kilo females)- far greater than humans. That any comparison to human behavior cannot be implied. Just take it as it is. If it makes you feel better, wild female orangutan mothers are capable of teaching their children over 180 food sources during a nurturing period lasting over 10 years. Impressive stuff.