6 ms·

This layout still feels inferior next to my http://trulyergonomic.com/ http://trulyergonomic.com/ keyboard. I was really skeptical at first, especially with the

This layout still feels inferior next to my http://trulyergonomic.com/ http://trulyergonomic.com/ keyboard. I was really skeptical at first, especially with the price tag - but I'd never go back now.

codex 13y ago
The layout looks great, with an easier layout to learn than my DataHand--but do you ever miss the option/Windows key being in a convenient location? Or is the diamond convenient enough? My Topres require as little as 35g of pressure--what is the activation force required here? And do you miss being able to type "cd" quickly with a two finger combo due to the straight columns?
- ocharles 13y ago
  I don't miss where the windows key is because I rarely have a need to press it. Linux is my primary OS. I also have the extended Truly Ergonomic, and I think I could remap the extra key to windows if I so desired. I'm not sure exactly what the activation pressure is, but I don't think it's much off 35g. I think the exact number is in the specs on the website. The 'cd' thing I can type with one hand, but that's because I type using dvorak.
barrkel 13y ago
I'd consider it if the arrow key / edit block hadn't been destroyed. I do a lot of editing with the arrow keys + insert / delete / home / end / page up / page down block. Generally, all cuts, pastes, block moves etc. are done with those, especially since Ctrl-{C,X,V} are not convenient with a Dvorak layout. For similar reasons I've never gotten a keyboard that mucked around with the 6 keys above the arrow keys.
- jonhohle 13y ago
  I've been considering some of the alternative ergonomic keyboards, and found an external numpad with arrows and editing keys [0]. I've been using an Apple Adjustable Keyboard [1], which has a separate numpad which can be used separately from the rest of the keyboard (though requires an ADB port). Unfortunately, the 6-key cluster on the AAK is awful, and painful to use regularly (tiny dome keys which require too much pressure for their tiny size). [0] http://www.ergogeek.com/ione-scorpius-32-mechanical-numeric-keypad-ps-2-at.html http://www.ergogeek.com/ione-scorpius-32-mechanical-numeric-... [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Adjustable_Keyb...
grannyg00se 13y ago
I'd be all over that if it had some kind of integrated mouse pointer. I loathe moving my entire hand around to mouse. So I stay with the Lenovo Travel Ultranav.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Isn't that keyboard no longer in production? Have you tried using their latest keyboards which drop the touchpad and come with the new style keys? http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0B47190&category-id=60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7&hide_menu_area=yes http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo... http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0B47189&category-id=60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7&hide_menu_area=yes http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...
  - grannyg00se 13y ago
    I'm not sure about their production status. A quick search does seem to indicate that you are correct. I have a 2013 Thinkpad so I know about the new keys and I don't mind them at all. And I really like that they've gotten rid of the trackpad completely on the new models since I hate trackpads even more than a separate mouse. But I do rest my palms on the area beside the trackpad. Looking at the new models that area seems like it might be a bit short. I'm not sure where my wrists would rest there and I fear they may be in some in between zone not completely on the keyboard and not completely off of it. That would probably be annoying. Hopefully that's not the case. I'm tempted to order one of these just to find out whether I find them okay or not. If I don't, I'll have to scour the internet for older models and buy a few. Thanks for the heads-up :)
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      Don't you miss the convenience of multi finger gestures on the touchpad? I haven't got used to the trackpoint but that's because I tend to use the touchpad more. I guess I should disable the touchpad completely and force myself to learn/adapt to the trackpoint. I think a split keyboard with mechanical keys, without a number pad, and with a trackpoint (on both sides so lefties are happy) would make for a great keyboard.
astrodust 13y ago
With a layout like that, I bet you can't go back. The shift keys are in such a very odd position, with Alt, a rarely used key, sitting in the prime spot. "Ergonomic" keyboards tend to be trouble for anyone who's not a strict home-row typer. I cross over the middle a lot, like for "keyboard" the Y is for left hand. Maybe it's more like a piano thing, where you're sort of hitting chords, pairs of letters in sequence ("e", "y"), hands moving into position to prepare, versus regimented typing. That giant gulf in the middle prevents all that.
- scrabble 13y ago
  Have you tried an ergonomic keyboard? I tend to be a bit of a floaty typist as well, but a couple years ago I used a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard for a year. To my surprise, I found that I got used to it pretty quickly.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    I have. My highly subjective opinion is that they're all wrong. I've been typing on regular keyboards for long enough they don't bother me.
- ocharles 13y ago
  Actually, I find the shift keys are in a superb place. While I was used to having control there, now that I work primarily in Vim, I have more of a need to modify with shift rather than control. The new location of shift is actually one of my favourite changes! I agree that good typing discipline is important. Luckily, I am very home row focused, as I made a lot of effort to type like that when I made the switch from qwerty to dvorak.
allengeorge 13y ago
I'm going to second this. It definitely took a while to get used to, but once you do... That said, a big downside of using a non-standard keyboard layout is the number of mistakes you make when you switch back to a normal keyboard (laptops, colleagues' computers, etc.)
- ocharles 13y ago
  I found this true for a while, but I tend to alternate quite a lot. I work directly on my laptop from home, with a normal layout - I occasionally shift in the wrong place, but that's about it. I have bigger problems sharing keyboards as I don't type qwerty, but I type dvorak. That switch takes a lot more mental processing.

This layout still feels inferior next to my http://trulyergonomic.com/ http://trulyergonomic.com/ keyboard. I was really skeptical at first, especially with the price tag - but I'd never go back now.

codex 13y ago

The layout looks great, with an easier layout to learn than my DataHand--but do you ever miss the option/Windows key being in a convenient location? Or is the diamond convenient enough? My Topres require as little as 35g of pressure--what is the activation force required here? And do you miss being able to type "cd" quickly with a two finger combo due to the straight columns?

ocharles 13y ago
I don't miss where the windows key is because I rarely have a need to press it. Linux is my primary OS. I also have the extended Truly Ergonomic, and I think I could remap the extra key to windows if I so desired. I'm not sure exactly what the activation pressure is, but I don't think it's much off 35g. I think the exact number is in the specs on the website. The 'cd' thing I can type with one hand, but that's because I type using dvorak.

barrkel 13y ago

I'd consider it if the arrow key / edit block hadn't been destroyed. I do a lot of editing with the arrow keys + insert / delete / home / end / page up / page down block. Generally, all cuts, pastes, block moves etc. are done with those, especially since Ctrl-{C,X,V} are not convenient with a Dvorak layout. For similar reasons I've never gotten a keyboard that mucked around with the 6 keys above the arrow keys.

jonhohle 13y ago
I've been considering some of the alternative ergonomic keyboards, and found an external numpad with arrows and editing keys [0]. I've been using an Apple Adjustable Keyboard [1], which has a separate numpad which can be used separately from the rest of the keyboard (though requires an ADB port). Unfortunately, the 6-key cluster on the AAK is awful, and painful to use regularly (tiny dome keys which require too much pressure for their tiny size). [0] http://www.ergogeek.com/ione-scorpius-32-mechanical-numeric-keypad-ps-2-at.html http://www.ergogeek.com/ione-scorpius-32-mechanical-numeric-... [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Adjustable_Keyb...

grannyg00se 13y ago

I'd be all over that if it had some kind of integrated mouse pointer. I loathe moving my entire hand around to mouse. So I stay with the Lenovo Travel Ultranav.

yapcguy 13y ago
Isn't that keyboard no longer in production? Have you tried using their latest keyboards which drop the touchpad and come with the new style keys? http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0B47190&category-id=60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7&hide_menu_area=yes http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo... http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0B47189&category-id=60AC6A0372B14F5BA7B12F1FF88E33C7&hide_menu_area=yes http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...
- grannyg00se 13y ago
  I'm not sure about their production status. A quick search does seem to indicate that you are correct. I have a 2013 Thinkpad so I know about the new keys and I don't mind them at all. And I really like that they've gotten rid of the trackpad completely on the new models since I hate trackpads even more than a separate mouse. But I do rest my palms on the area beside the trackpad. Looking at the new models that area seems like it might be a bit short. I'm not sure where my wrists would rest there and I fear they may be in some in between zone not completely on the keyboard and not completely off of it. That would probably be annoying. Hopefully that's not the case. I'm tempted to order one of these just to find out whether I find them okay or not. If I don't, I'll have to scour the internet for older models and buy a few. Thanks for the heads-up :)
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Don't you miss the convenience of multi finger gestures on the touchpad? I haven't got used to the trackpoint but that's because I tend to use the touchpad more. I guess I should disable the touchpad completely and force myself to learn/adapt to the trackpoint. I think a split keyboard with mechanical keys, without a number pad, and with a trackpoint (on both sides so lefties are happy) would make for a great keyboard.

astrodust 13y ago

With a layout like that, I bet you can't go back. The shift keys are in such a very odd position, with Alt, a rarely used key, sitting in the prime spot. "Ergonomic" keyboards tend to be trouble for anyone who's not a strict home-row typer. I cross over the middle a lot, like for "keyboard" the Y is for left hand. Maybe it's more like a piano thing, where you're sort of hitting chords, pairs of letters in sequence ("e", "y"), hands moving into position to prepare, versus regimented typing. That giant gulf in the middle prevents all that.

scrabble 13y ago
Have you tried an ergonomic keyboard? I tend to be a bit of a floaty typist as well, but a couple years ago I used a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard for a year. To my surprise, I found that I got used to it pretty quickly.
- astrodust 13y ago
  I have. My highly subjective opinion is that they're all wrong. I've been typing on regular keyboards for long enough they don't bother me.
ocharles 13y ago
Actually, I find the shift keys are in a superb place. While I was used to having control there, now that I work primarily in Vim, I have more of a need to modify with shift rather than control. The new location of shift is actually one of my favourite changes! I agree that good typing discipline is important. Luckily, I am very home row focused, as I made a lot of effort to type like that when I made the switch from qwerty to dvorak.

allengeorge 13y ago

I'm going to second this. It definitely took a while to get used to, but once you do... That said, a big downside of using a non-standard keyboard layout is the number of mistakes you make when you switch back to a normal keyboard (laptops, colleagues' computers, etc.)

ocharles 13y ago
I found this true for a while, but I tend to alternate quite a lot. I work directly on my laptop from home, with a normal layout - I occasionally shift in the wrong place, but that's about it. I have bigger problems sharing keyboards as I don't type qwerty, but I type dvorak. That switch takes a lot more mental processing.