5 ms·

Vaadin - GWT with a skinnable UI.

53 points by huyng 17y ago

ianbishop 17y ago
It seems like the 'Cappuccino' of the GWT. Edit: It even has a multi-platform 'nib2cib': "WYSIWYG user interface editor under Eclipse"
huherto 17y ago
This looks great. So far I have used ext-gwt, but I stopped because they changed a year ago their license. Felt like a bait and switch. This sort of product is badly needed on GWT to completely kick ass. Also take a look at SmartGwt.
- hello_moto 17y ago
  Ext-GWT is a hell when it comes to widget customization. Also the API prevents it to be extensible. From my personal experience (very very tiny data point), most of these "beautiful" GWT frameworks are good only if you want to wipe out something fast and don't mind with the default look.
  - jojule 17y ago
    (DOM structures in) Vaadin has been designed to be easily themeable. Just look at the iTunes Mockup example: http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/ http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/
huyng 17y ago
I'm looking deeply into solid frameworks for developing rich cross platform apps. So far this looks promising as well as Capuccino. The killer feature for me is this table widget implementation http://demo.vaadin.com/sampler/#Components/Table%20%28Grid%29/TableColumnReordering http://demo.vaadin.com/sampler/#Components/Table%20%28Grid%2... Here is the HelloWorld tutorial: http://vaadin.com/tutorial http://vaadin.com/tutorial
bravura 17y ago
It looks good, but I don't see any demos that involve graphics. How usable is Vaadin for graphics?
- huyng 17y ago
  According to this example: http://demo.vaadin.com/Coverflow/ http://demo.vaadin.com/Coverflow/ It seems like you can add custom widgets easily. In this app they started using a Flash Widget for custom graphics. I'm not a GWT developer, does anyone have any experience adding custom GWT/Vaadin widgets to your applications?
  - jojule 17y ago
    Book of Vaadin http://vaadin.com/book http://vaadin.com/book has a whole chapter on this. Also the Vaadin Eclipse Plugin makes getting started with adding new widgets trivial (just "Add New Widget" and it creates a widget stub for you)
- janilaakso 17y ago
  You might try these demos: Graphical editor and bunch of other graphical stuff: http://john.virtuallypreinstalled.com/ToolkitDraw http://john.virtuallypreinstalled.com/ToolkitDraw iTunes demo made with Vaadin http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/ http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/
- jojule 17y ago
  Because of the server-driven architecture, you can use graphing libraries like JFreeChart easily.
hello_moto 17y ago
Be aware that the paradigm of Vaadin (known as IT Mill Toolkit) is leaning toward server-side. GWT is 100% client-side (plus RPC). My guess is that Vaadin did a bit of UI rendering (prep-ing the HTML) on server-side then send it to client.
- DenisM 17y ago
  That was my impressin too. Are they trying to erase the boundary between the server and the client? If that's the case it's a terribly misguided thing to do...
  - slig 17y ago
    Indeed. I'd love to use my Java knowledge to write pretty interfaces, but on the server side I'm better off using Python.
    - huyng 17y ago
      Agreed, I definitely feel most comfortable with my Python on server-side, but the UI ability on this thing is beautiful. Too bad... I wish I was at JavaOne so I could ask these guys some questions regarding how easy it is to separate the two components.
      - cptobvious 17y ago
        Vaadin keeps the application state on the server, but the presentation (HTML) is 100% generated on the client side. Changes in server-side state are serialized and sent to client in compact User Interface Definition Language (UIDL). This is obviously a more secure approach to writing web apps, since the state is safe on the server. So no pre-rendering of UI on the server..
      - peppe 17y ago
        Yeah. Every component has a server side and a client side. Client side has all the rendering stuff in it while the server side has the business logic. That way the functionality can't be hacked as the client side is just responsible of sending input to the server, where all the hard work is done.
goodkarma 17y ago
Between this and GWT (and the Google Wave app they are going to open source), I'm getting pretty interested in Java and using tools like GWT to just generate all of the javascript etc. It almost sounds like it will be /easier/ than Ruby on Rails. Is that crazy?
- huyng 17y ago
  No I don't think so ... I actually found this library as I was watching the GoogleIO Wave Keynote. When I saw what the wave team did with GWT, compiling Java => Javascript became a viable option in my mind. Before the demo, it had always been a mystery to me as to why anyone would want to use such an absurd amount of abstraction.
  - jojule 17y ago
    In Vaadin you do not have to compile Java to JavaScript. Instead you are using native Java on server-side. GWT is used only for compiling "client-side thinclient". This is only needed when you want to add more widets to Vaadin - if you are happy with the default widgets you do not have to worry about GWT/browsers/compilation.
janilaakso 17y ago
Guys, please check out the server-side features too, Vaadin is not just client-side GWT on stereoids. Having server-side framework too means that building applications is easier than with plain GWT.
huherto 17y ago
One thing that I like about the company. It is very clear that the framework is free. (Apache License). But they offer some interesting services (Theme Design, Usability Design, Solution Sprint, Proof of Concept, Project KickStart, Quality Assurance) http://vaadin.com/services http://vaadin.com/services I think it make a lot of sense for a company to hire these services because some of these areas require a level of specialization that is very difficult to find. For example a traditional web designer needs to understand the tool paradigm to use it effectively. On the other hand if you are small company you still can use the framework. (The only thing I am not convinced is about the server-side idea)

53 points by huyng 17y ago

It seems like the 'Cappuccino' of the GWT. Edit: It even has a multi-platform 'nib2cib': "WYSIWYG user interface editor under Eclipse"

huherto 17y ago

This looks great. So far I have used ext-gwt, but I stopped because they changed a year ago their license. Felt like a bait and switch. This sort of product is badly needed on GWT to completely kick ass. Also take a look at SmartGwt.

hello_moto 17y ago
Ext-GWT is a hell when it comes to widget customization. Also the API prevents it to be extensible. From my personal experience (very very tiny data point), most of these "beautiful" GWT frameworks are good only if you want to wipe out something fast and don't mind with the default look.
- jojule 17y ago
  (DOM structures in) Vaadin has been designed to be easily themeable. Just look at the iTunes Mockup example: http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/ http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/

huyng 17y ago

I'm looking deeply into solid frameworks for developing rich cross platform apps. So far this looks promising as well as Capuccino. The killer feature for me is this table widget implementation http://demo.vaadin.com/sampler/#Components/Table%20%28Grid%29/TableColumnReordering http://demo.vaadin.com/sampler/#Components/Table%20%28Grid%2... Here is the HelloWorld tutorial: http://vaadin.com/tutorial http://vaadin.com/tutorial

bravura 17y ago

It looks good, but I don't see any demos that involve graphics. How usable is Vaadin for graphics?

huyng 17y ago
According to this example: http://demo.vaadin.com/Coverflow/ http://demo.vaadin.com/Coverflow/ It seems like you can add custom widgets easily. In this app they started using a Flash Widget for custom graphics. I'm not a GWT developer, does anyone have any experience adding custom GWT/Vaadin widgets to your applications?
- jojule 17y ago
  Book of Vaadin http://vaadin.com/book http://vaadin.com/book has a whole chapter on this. Also the Vaadin Eclipse Plugin makes getting started with adding new widgets trivial (just "Add New Widget" and it creates a widget stub for you)
janilaakso 17y ago
You might try these demos: Graphical editor and bunch of other graphical stuff: http://john.virtuallypreinstalled.com/ToolkitDraw http://john.virtuallypreinstalled.com/ToolkitDraw iTunes demo made with Vaadin http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/ http://demo.vaadin.com/VaadinTunesLayout/
jojule 17y ago
Because of the server-driven architecture, you can use graphing libraries like JFreeChart easily.

hello_moto 17y ago

Be aware that the paradigm of Vaadin (known as IT Mill Toolkit) is leaning toward server-side. GWT is 100% client-side (plus RPC). My guess is that Vaadin did a bit of UI rendering (prep-ing the HTML) on server-side then send it to client.

DenisM 17y ago
That was my impressin too. Are they trying to erase the boundary between the server and the client? If that's the case it's a terribly misguided thing to do...
- slig 17y ago
  Indeed. I'd love to use my Java knowledge to write pretty interfaces, but on the server side I'm better off using Python.
  - huyng 17y ago
    Agreed, I definitely feel most comfortable with my Python on server-side, but the UI ability on this thing is beautiful. Too bad... I wish I was at JavaOne so I could ask these guys some questions regarding how easy it is to separate the two components.
    - cptobvious 17y ago
      Vaadin keeps the application state on the server, but the presentation (HTML) is 100% generated on the client side. Changes in server-side state are serialized and sent to client in compact User Interface Definition Language (UIDL). This is obviously a more secure approach to writing web apps, since the state is safe on the server. So no pre-rendering of UI on the server..
    - peppe 17y ago
      Yeah. Every component has a server side and a client side. Client side has all the rendering stuff in it while the server side has the business logic. That way the functionality can't be hacked as the client side is just responsible of sending input to the server, where all the hard work is done.

goodkarma 17y ago

Between this and GWT (and the Google Wave app they are going to open source), I'm getting pretty interested in Java and using tools like GWT to just generate all of the javascript etc. It almost sounds like it will be /easier/ than Ruby on Rails. Is that crazy?

huyng 17y ago
No I don't think so ... I actually found this library as I was watching the GoogleIO Wave Keynote. When I saw what the wave team did with GWT, compiling Java => Javascript became a viable option in my mind. Before the demo, it had always been a mystery to me as to why anyone would want to use such an absurd amount of abstraction.
- jojule 17y ago
  In Vaadin you do not have to compile Java to JavaScript. Instead you are using native Java on server-side. GWT is used only for compiling "client-side thinclient". This is only needed when you want to add more widets to Vaadin - if you are happy with the default widgets you do not have to worry about GWT/browsers/compilation.

janilaakso 17y ago

Guys, please check out the server-side features too, Vaadin is not just client-side GWT on stereoids. Having server-side framework too means that building applications is easier than with plain GWT.

huherto 17y ago

One thing that I like about the company. It is very clear that the framework is free. (Apache License). But they offer some interesting services (Theme Design, Usability Design, Solution Sprint, Proof of Concept, Project KickStart, Quality Assurance) http://vaadin.com/services http://vaadin.com/services I think it make a lot of sense for a company to hire these services because some of these areas require a level of specialization that is very difficult to find. For example a traditional web designer needs to understand the tool paradigm to use it effectively. On the other hand if you are small company you still can use the framework. (The only thing I am not convinced is about the server-side idea)