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> That's all well and good, but when I need to stream music instantly Grooveshark has my back--no fee, no sign-in, no bullshit. You're completely missing the p

> That's all well and good, but when I need to stream music instantly Grooveshark has my back--no fee, no sign-in, no bullshit. You're completely missing the point. It's irrelevant that you can get music for free, because it's not produced for free. It costs money to produce music and to arrange it to be available on Amazon or iTunes or where ever. It's not unreasonable to expect you to pay for music. I don't mean to imply anything about "stealing", but you wouldn't walk into a supermarket expecting to just take stuff either. It's about someone producing something of value that you want.

angersock 13y ago
And I'm telling you that nobody gives a shit, because they just want to listen to music. Look, I'll happily debate intellectual property structures and incentives and all the rest, but the thing--the big elephant in the room--is that everybody just wants to be able to push a button and get music. At the end of the day, the core relationship is between the artist and the listener--everything else, be it recording or ticketing or distribution or whatever, is secondary fluff. Grooveshark offers the most compelling experience to the user right now, regardless of how scummy (and I do mean scummy!) their business practices are.
- anoncowherd 13y ago
  > And I'm telling you that nobody gives a shit, because they just want to listen to music. I do realize that people are selfish and just want everything for free, and that computers & the Internet enable them to circumvent having to pay for music. That doesn't change anything about my point, though. Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? Again, it costs money to produce music and to make it available for purchase. I've downloaded music, just like everyone else, but as a genuine music lover, I've also happily paid for some 200 - 300 CDs back in the day, and those comprise roughly 95% of all the music I listen to. Do you get it? It's alright to pay for music. It's downright expected by anyone producing it. There is no free lunch. There aren't many things of real value that you can expect to get for free. Open-source software is a rare exception, but that doesn't really apply on the desktop, so.. yeah. Think about this stuff. You need to see beyond yourself.
  - epochwolf 13y ago
    What I think you're missing is people don't believe them not paying for music causes harm. Even if they did, I suspect a large number of them simply won't care enough to pay.
    - anoncowherd 13y ago
      > What I think you're missing is people don't believe them not paying for music causes harm. I'm aware of that. But I don't think the guy I originally responded to thought even that far. That's why I responded. He's just completely oblivious to the fact that people putting music up for sale actually do expect others to pay for it.
  - aspensmonster 13y ago
    >Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? No, I don't realize that. The overwhelming majority of music never makes any money because making money isn't the point. Making money is the point for a small contingent of entrenched players who carved out a market for themselves decades ago and are now seeing it disrupted. Far more artists fear obscurity and irrelevance than could ever fear piracy. Any residual coin they make due to any eventual popularity is just icing on the cake.
    - anoncowherd 13y ago
      > No, I don't realize that. The overwhelming majority of music never makes any money because making money isn't the point. I do realize that music is a passion for musicians, but record companies are in it for a profit. They're businesses, and they're what I was referring to. You're free to seek out indie musicians on CDBaby or whatever and then download the shit out of their music, but even they'd at least prefer that you buy it. That's why their music can be found online.
  - spacelizard 13y ago
    >Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? I cringe whenever I hear someone express this sentiment, it's the equivalent of the nuclear option. Do you really think these companies are just going to get frustrated, pack up their toys and go home? No, of course not. It's the same reason I don't buy into these "starving artist" sob stories: no one can escape market forces. The fact of the matter is, that business landscape is extremely competitive and typically requires a large initial investment. It's always been this way. The one force that seems to be an equalizer is technology in general getting cheaper and cheaper, NOT the protectionism known as copyright.

angersock 13y ago

And I'm telling you that nobody gives a shit, because they just want to listen to music. Look, I'll happily debate intellectual property structures and incentives and all the rest, but the thing--the big elephant in the room--is that everybody just wants to be able to push a button and get music. At the end of the day, the core relationship is between the artist and the listener--everything else, be it recording or ticketing or distribution or whatever, is secondary fluff. Grooveshark offers the most compelling experience to the user right now, regardless of how scummy (and I do mean scummy!) their business practices are.

anoncowherd 13y ago
> And I'm telling you that nobody gives a shit, because they just want to listen to music. I do realize that people are selfish and just want everything for free, and that computers & the Internet enable them to circumvent having to pay for music. That doesn't change anything about my point, though. Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? Again, it costs money to produce music and to make it available for purchase. I've downloaded music, just like everyone else, but as a genuine music lover, I've also happily paid for some 200 - 300 CDs back in the day, and those comprise roughly 95% of all the music I listen to. Do you get it? It's alright to pay for music. It's downright expected by anyone producing it. There is no free lunch. There aren't many things of real value that you can expect to get for free. Open-source software is a rare exception, but that doesn't really apply on the desktop, so.. yeah. Think about this stuff. You need to see beyond yourself.
- epochwolf 13y ago
  What I think you're missing is people don't believe them not paying for music causes harm. Even if they did, I suspect a large number of them simply won't care enough to pay.
  - anoncowherd 13y ago
    > What I think you're missing is people don't believe them not paying for music causes harm. I'm aware of that. But I don't think the guy I originally responded to thought even that far. That's why I responded. He's just completely oblivious to the fact that people putting music up for sale actually do expect others to pay for it.
- aspensmonster 13y ago
  >Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? No, I don't realize that. The overwhelming majority of music never makes any money because making money isn't the point. Making money is the point for a small contingent of entrenched players who carved out a market for themselves decades ago and are now seeing it disrupted. Far more artists fear obscurity and irrelevance than could ever fear piracy. Any residual coin they make due to any eventual popularity is just icing on the cake.
  - anoncowherd 13y ago
    > No, I don't realize that. The overwhelming majority of music never makes any money because making money isn't the point. I do realize that music is a passion for musicians, but record companies are in it for a profit. They're businesses, and they're what I was referring to. You're free to seek out indie musicians on CDBaby or whatever and then download the shit out of their music, but even they'd at least prefer that you buy it. That's why their music can be found online.
- spacelizard 13y ago
  >Do you realize that if music producers can't make a satisfactory profit, then music will just not be produced? I cringe whenever I hear someone express this sentiment, it's the equivalent of the nuclear option. Do you really think these companies are just going to get frustrated, pack up their toys and go home? No, of course not. It's the same reason I don't buy into these "starving artist" sob stories: no one can escape market forces. The fact of the matter is, that business landscape is extremely competitive and typically requires a large initial investment. It's always been this way. The one force that seems to be an equalizer is technology in general getting cheaper and cheaper, NOT the protectionism known as copyright.