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A viable alternative may be in-vitro fermentation: http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2013/02/19/370638/Taiwan-to.htm http://www.chinapos

by audreyt 13y ago

A viable alternative may be in-vitro fermentation: http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2013/02/19/370638/Taiwan-to.htm http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/20... There was a marketing campaign earlier this year in Taiwan around the animal-cruelty-free process.

sliverstorm 13y ago
I can't help but think you'll see the same thing as with diamonds. Inventing a lab process will just make the original cat-process even more prized, because suddenly it's not just "rare" but it is also "authentic". Basically, it doesn't seem like this is a technical challenge. It's a social challenge.
- shaneofalltrad 13y ago
  I don't know, you could recreate a process that falls under a model, similar to micro-brews. Then you attach clean and good for the environment. This would be the next big hobby, and better for you than that cool cigar humidor, or making of beer.
- troels 13y ago
  Maybe so. I wonder though, if it's cheaper to produce it synthetically and impossible to tell the difference in the final product, wouldn't those people who produce it now (out of greed) be very tempted to use the synthetic process, but still claim that they use the "authentic" one?
throwaway9848 13y ago
No need. People need to just stop drinking this mediocre and overpriced product and learn how to make perfectly serviceable high grade arabicas taste good. I doubt most people that purchase the coffee even know what Gold Cup standards are. http://www.scae.com/scae-gold-cup-programme/how-the-gold-cup-works.html http://www.scae.com/scae-gold-cup-programme/how-the-gold-cup... Kopi Luwak is - outside of novelty purposes - a ridiculous status symbol for rich idiots, like using ground-up, ineffective rhino horn to treat erectile disfunction.
- TheAceOfHearts 13y ago
  This seems very similar to wines. I like coffee and I like wine, but my only metric for whether one is good or bad is simply if I like the taste.
  - throwaway9848 13y ago
    "You yourself are gratified by some music, arrangements of noises, and again essentially nonsense. If I were to kick a bucket down the cellar stairs, and then say to you that the racket I had made was philosophically on a par with The Magic Flute, this would not be the beginning of a long and upsetting debate. An utterly satisfactory and complete response on your part would be,'I like what Mozart did, and I hate what the bucket did.'" -Kurt Vonnegut to his brother Bernie, excerpted from Timequake (Which is to say, I agree with your point, and just wanted an excuse to quote the most entertaining paraphrasing ever of 'to each his own')
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    That's not even "good" or "bad", just "taste". I personally gravitate to dry reds, particularly within a certain price range- too cheap and you can't taste the grapes, too expensive and you can't taste the alcohol- but that doesn't mean whites are "bad".
- rjett 13y ago
  Amen! Kopi Luwak has the inherent marketing advantage of describing the production process in a one sentence, narrative hook that everyone understands. Even non coffee drinkers know about "that coffee where the weasel poops it out." That aside, modern experimental coffee processing techniques, varietal classifications, and terroir's effect on taste and quality is far more interesting and productive with regards to pushing the envelope for specialty coffee.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Got any good sources for learning the craft? I have assembled the basics over the past couple years, and have probably reached the point where my devices are no longer the limiting factor.
Create 13y ago
Coffee fermentation is already a very well understood operation: this is partially why high quality beans are a commodity item (ie. selection of microbe strains). It is also a food safety issue, so you have lots of attention from authorities too (including the UN). The rest is just a branding a pricing exercise (along with roasting, which is also a well understood process). The whole trading process is not unlike trading Brent barrels and selling them through different oil companies and stations. Ask Nestlé.
mathattack 13y ago
I would think that there has to be a synthetic was to get the same effect.

by audreyt 13y ago

sliverstorm 13y ago

I can't help but think you'll see the same thing as with diamonds. Inventing a lab process will just make the original cat-process even more prized, because suddenly it's not just "rare" but it is also "authentic". Basically, it doesn't seem like this is a technical challenge. It's a social challenge.

shaneofalltrad 13y ago
I don't know, you could recreate a process that falls under a model, similar to micro-brews. Then you attach clean and good for the environment. This would be the next big hobby, and better for you than that cool cigar humidor, or making of beer.
troels 13y ago
Maybe so. I wonder though, if it's cheaper to produce it synthetically and impossible to tell the difference in the final product, wouldn't those people who produce it now (out of greed) be very tempted to use the synthetic process, but still claim that they use the "authentic" one?

throwaway9848 13y ago

No need. People need to just stop drinking this mediocre and overpriced product and learn how to make perfectly serviceable high grade arabicas taste good. I doubt most people that purchase the coffee even know what Gold Cup standards are. http://www.scae.com/scae-gold-cup-programme/how-the-gold-cup-works.html http://www.scae.com/scae-gold-cup-programme/how-the-gold-cup... Kopi Luwak is - outside of novelty purposes - a ridiculous status symbol for rich idiots, like using ground-up, ineffective rhino horn to treat erectile disfunction.

TheAceOfHearts 13y ago
This seems very similar to wines. I like coffee and I like wine, but my only metric for whether one is good or bad is simply if I like the taste.
- throwaway9848 13y ago
  "You yourself are gratified by some music, arrangements of noises, and again essentially nonsense. If I were to kick a bucket down the cellar stairs, and then say to you that the racket I had made was philosophically on a par with The Magic Flute, this would not be the beginning of a long and upsetting debate. An utterly satisfactory and complete response on your part would be,'I like what Mozart did, and I hate what the bucket did.'" -Kurt Vonnegut to his brother Bernie, excerpted from Timequake (Which is to say, I agree with your point, and just wanted an excuse to quote the most entertaining paraphrasing ever of 'to each his own')
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  That's not even "good" or "bad", just "taste". I personally gravitate to dry reds, particularly within a certain price range- too cheap and you can't taste the grapes, too expensive and you can't taste the alcohol- but that doesn't mean whites are "bad".
rjett 13y ago
Amen! Kopi Luwak has the inherent marketing advantage of describing the production process in a one sentence, narrative hook that everyone understands. Even non coffee drinkers know about "that coffee where the weasel poops it out." That aside, modern experimental coffee processing techniques, varietal classifications, and terroir's effect on taste and quality is far more interesting and productive with regards to pushing the envelope for specialty coffee.
sliverstorm 13y ago
Got any good sources for learning the craft? I have assembled the basics over the past couple years, and have probably reached the point where my devices are no longer the limiting factor.

Create 13y ago

Coffee fermentation is already a very well understood operation: this is partially why high quality beans are a commodity item (ie. selection of microbe strains). It is also a food safety issue, so you have lots of attention from authorities too (including the UN). The rest is just a branding a pricing exercise (along with roasting, which is also a well understood process). The whole trading process is not unlike trading Brent barrels and selling them through different oil companies and stations. Ask Nestlé.

mathattack 13y ago

I would think that there has to be a synthetic was to get the same effect.