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I seem to recall at the YC meetup in Cambridge last summer (http://anyvite.com/events/home/tmokjxuwai/ http://anyvite.com/events/home/tmokjxuwai/) that there wa

by sanj 17y ago

I seem to recall at the YC meetup in Cambridge last summer (http://anyvite.com/events/home/tmokjxuwai/ http://anyvite.com/events/home/tmokjxuwai/) that there was a question asking why the application asked for age. I recall that you said "... age is a high bit in characterizing someone." And Jessica yelled from the cheap seats that "... we need it to know that you can sign stuff legally." I remember it vividly because it confirmed my decision not to apply to YC.

pg 17y ago
It sounds like you were reading a lot into what we said. Jessica's remark was obviously a joke. And all I meant was that when you're trying to judge someone's achievements, you need to know how long they've had to achieve them. Would you hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old?
- SamAtt 17y ago
  I'd think there would be more of a drop off with opportunities like Y Combinator than there would be with other Angel investors. I'm surprised there are any at all. I guess it's still an excellent opportunity to meet people so I mean no offense to those over 30 who did sign up but I'm a 25 year old and I wouldn't pick up and move for $5,000 bucks. I always thought part of the lure of Y Combinator was that young folks had nothing to tie them down. I can't think of a 30 year old I know who has no obligations.
  - SwellJoe 17y ago
    "I mean no offense to those over 30 who did sign up but I'm a 25 year old and I wouldn't pick up and move for $5,000 bucks" No offense taken (I was 32 when we accepted YC funding). But it wasn't for $5000. Nobody, at any age, (except for rdouble) is applying to YC for $5000. The reason to move is because you probably should be in the valley, if you're starting a technology startup that is going to need to raise money or build partnerships with existing tech companies. Anyway, the money was not at all a motivating factor for us in applying for YC. If we could hire pg, tlb, rtm, and Jessica to work for us for some amount of money, I would happily give them money. But that's not the way they wanted to play it, so we took some money from them instead. You're entirely missing the point of YC, if you think the money is the primary motivation for anyone working with YC. Edit: Parenthetical added to cover outlier.
    - rdouble 17y ago
      Nobody, at any age, is applying to YC for $5000. Actually, money was a large part of the reason I applied to YC. I had a huge medical bill while uninsured last year and it wiped out a large chunk of my cash.
      - SwellJoe 17y ago
        Fixed.
        rdouble 17y ago
        Heh. Cool. By the way, if you need an iPhone app for Virtualmin, my contact info is in my profile. We got an interview but we didn't get the $5000. :)
        SwellJoe 17y ago
        You know the email address field doesn't appear in your profile, right? And your websites don't provide contact info.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - webwright 17y ago
    In our class there were lots of people driving $50k+ cars as well as people who could afford to not work for years. Investors want founders who care more about their startups success than their own personal wealth/comfort. YC does an excellent job of weeding our people like you who wouldn't trade their comfort for a measurably better shot at startup success (which YC offers).
  - menloparkbum 17y ago
    I can't think of a 30 year old I know who has no obligations. You haven't spent much time in San Francisco, then...
  - wheels 17y ago
    I think the lure of YC (and really, the startup game in general) tends towards people who don't like being tied down. If you don't know people like that it's probably because you're not sampling from a pool of founders, but of people that have conformed to the more usual social paths.
- DocSavage 17y ago
  I think age normalization is very tough, made even more difficult if you have a limited window into the 30 year olds you were judging (e.g., field changes, new start-up religion). Since you're betting on the entrepreneurial equivalent of race horses, though, you might be right. In other industries, like book publishing, one would like to see similar standards across age so a Frank McCourt gets though. The thing getting judged, though, is an already existing body of work and not the promise of future work.
- illumen 17y ago
  It get's me thinking back to university, where there were a number of mature age students, most of whom were putting in much more than students on average. These people were obviously passionate, and had experiences in other industries. Not sure who to believe here. Also not sure if it's illegal where pg is to discriminate based on age. However it does seem that there's been a lot said about how people right out of college are the yc targets. Might be good to explicitly state the position on age, to clear everything up. That way old hands know if it's worth applying or not. Sounds like there a number of older people though, so I'm sure it's all good :) Yes, you are supposed to hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old - otherwise it's discrimination.
  - philwelch 17y ago
    Yes, you are supposed to hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old - otherwise it's discrimination. This argument begs the question. To discriminate is to treat different things differently. The real question is whether age discrimination is justified, and despite the negative connotations "discrimination" has picked up, that's exactly what we're arguing here.
  - wheels 17y ago
    Also not sure if it's illegal where pg is to discriminate based on age. Age discrimination isn't illegal; age discrimination by an employer against people over 40 is. Since those in question are under 40, and YC isn't employing said persons, legality doesn't weigh into things.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- sanj 17y ago
  My main point was that the application appears to have requested it, so the data is there for the analysis. I interpreted Jessica's remark as an attempt to head off concerns of any sort age-based discrimination rumblings.
dusklight 17y ago
can you explain why this made you decide not to apply to YC? we can make inferences from your remarks, but it would only be fair to you if you explained in your own words.
devin 17y ago
With all due respect that seems like an awfully sketchy reason to not apply. Why wouldn't age be important for a YC applicant? If I'm ponying up some cash for your startup that is undoubtedly a factor I'd be crazy not to know. Furthermore, the comment from 'Jessica', whom I do not know, sounds tongue-in-cheek. Are there other reasons, or is this the only factor you took into consideration?

by sanj 17y ago

pg 17y ago

It sounds like you were reading a lot into what we said. Jessica's remark was obviously a joke. And all I meant was that when you're trying to judge someone's achievements, you need to know how long they've had to achieve them. Would you hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old?

SamAtt 17y ago
I'd think there would be more of a drop off with opportunities like Y Combinator than there would be with other Angel investors. I'm surprised there are any at all. I guess it's still an excellent opportunity to meet people so I mean no offense to those over 30 who did sign up but I'm a 25 year old and I wouldn't pick up and move for $5,000 bucks. I always thought part of the lure of Y Combinator was that young folks had nothing to tie them down. I can't think of a 30 year old I know who has no obligations.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  "I mean no offense to those over 30 who did sign up but I'm a 25 year old and I wouldn't pick up and move for $5,000 bucks" No offense taken (I was 32 when we accepted YC funding). But it wasn't for $5000. Nobody, at any age, (except for rdouble) is applying to YC for $5000. The reason to move is because you probably should be in the valley, if you're starting a technology startup that is going to need to raise money or build partnerships with existing tech companies. Anyway, the money was not at all a motivating factor for us in applying for YC. If we could hire pg, tlb, rtm, and Jessica to work for us for some amount of money, I would happily give them money. But that's not the way they wanted to play it, so we took some money from them instead. You're entirely missing the point of YC, if you think the money is the primary motivation for anyone working with YC. Edit: Parenthetical added to cover outlier.
  - rdouble 17y ago
    Nobody, at any age, is applying to YC for $5000. Actually, money was a large part of the reason I applied to YC. I had a huge medical bill while uninsured last year and it wiped out a large chunk of my cash.
    - SwellJoe 17y ago
      Fixed.
      - rdouble 17y ago
        Heh. Cool. By the way, if you need an iPhone app for Virtualmin, my contact info is in my profile. We got an interview but we didn't get the $5000. :)
        SwellJoe 17y ago
        You know the email address field doesn't appear in your profile, right? And your websites don't provide contact info.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- webwright 17y ago
  In our class there were lots of people driving $50k+ cars as well as people who could afford to not work for years. Investors want founders who care more about their startups success than their own personal wealth/comfort. YC does an excellent job of weeding our people like you who wouldn't trade their comfort for a measurably better shot at startup success (which YC offers).
- menloparkbum 17y ago
  I can't think of a 30 year old I know who has no obligations. You haven't spent much time in San Francisco, then...
- wheels 17y ago
  I think the lure of YC (and really, the startup game in general) tends towards people who don't like being tied down. If you don't know people like that it's probably because you're not sampling from a pool of founders, but of people that have conformed to the more usual social paths.
DocSavage 17y ago
I think age normalization is very tough, made even more difficult if you have a limited window into the 30 year olds you were judging (e.g., field changes, new start-up religion). Since you're betting on the entrepreneurial equivalent of race horses, though, you might be right. In other industries, like book publishing, one would like to see similar standards across age so a Frank McCourt gets though. The thing getting judged, though, is an already existing body of work and not the promise of future work.
illumen 17y ago
It get's me thinking back to university, where there were a number of mature age students, most of whom were putting in much more than students on average. These people were obviously passionate, and had experiences in other industries. Not sure who to believe here. Also not sure if it's illegal where pg is to discriminate based on age. However it does seem that there's been a lot said about how people right out of college are the yc targets. Might be good to explicitly state the position on age, to clear everything up. That way old hands know if it's worth applying or not. Sounds like there a number of older people though, so I'm sure it's all good :) Yes, you are supposed to hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old - otherwise it's discrimination.
- philwelch 17y ago
  Yes, you are supposed to hold a 20 year old to the same standard as a 30 year old - otherwise it's discrimination. This argument begs the question. To discriminate is to treat different things differently. The real question is whether age discrimination is justified, and despite the negative connotations "discrimination" has picked up, that's exactly what we're arguing here.
- wheels 17y ago
  Also not sure if it's illegal where pg is to discriminate based on age. Age discrimination isn't illegal; age discrimination by an employer against people over 40 is. Since those in question are under 40, and YC isn't employing said persons, legality doesn't weigh into things.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
sanj 17y ago
My main point was that the application appears to have requested it, so the data is there for the analysis. I interpreted Jessica's remark as an attempt to head off concerns of any sort age-based discrimination rumblings.

dusklight 17y ago

can you explain why this made you decide not to apply to YC? we can make inferences from your remarks, but it would only be fair to you if you explained in your own words.

devin 17y ago

With all due respect that seems like an awfully sketchy reason to not apply. Why wouldn't age be important for a YC applicant? If I'm ponying up some cash for your startup that is undoubtedly a factor I'd be crazy not to know. Furthermore, the comment from 'Jessica', whom I do not know, sounds tongue-in-cheek. Are there other reasons, or is this the only factor you took into consideration?