3 ms·

So, how well does this framework handle screen readers, like JAWS? All javascript, all the time is terrible from an accessibility standpoint.

mistercow 13y ago
My understanding is that screen readers read from the DOM and update their buffer regularly, so as long as you're doing your rendering via the DOM, and not by drawing to a canvas or something weird like that, it won't really matter.
- Sanddancer 13y ago
  There's actually a lot of weirdness with certain bits of DOM events and screenreaders, with some portions updating more often than others. You'll run into situations where some updates will fire, and others won't unless your careful, and use ARIA tagging properly.
  - mistercow 13y ago
    That's very strange. I wonder what the technical reason for doing it that way is.
evanmoran 13y ago
Since OJ can render server side it should come down to people as the HTML/CSS screen readers know and love. One way to think about OJ is as a fancy new Jade-like templating system. If screen readers work off of Jade (and I believe they do) then they should work off of OJ as well.
- Sanddancer 13y ago
  That I can understand. I think the biggest thing that was rather off-putting about this project is that it seems that you're selling it as throwing Javascript blobs to the client to render, instead of as a primarily server-side templating system, which makes a lot more sense. However, it does lead to a request to put in support for ARIA tagging ( http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria ), because if anything, baking accessibility support like this into a templating language makes it easier for people to reach disabled people who want to view sites. I've got to apologize for the harsh tone of the original posting. I have a few friends who are either legally or totally blind, and have had to help them try to find software that is reader-compatible so they can interact with the world around them. So seeing the "everything is dynamic" ability sold as the big reason to use this templating language, and knowing that readers can get confused if there's a lot of weird actions going on with the DOM, made me frustrated that there was yet another tool made that will further alienate these people, and make it harder to use one of the most awesome tools made for communications. Too many people take a path that is essentially "fuck the blind", which is just saddenning.

mistercow 13y ago

My understanding is that screen readers read from the DOM and update their buffer regularly, so as long as you're doing your rendering via the DOM, and not by drawing to a canvas or something weird like that, it won't really matter.

Sanddancer 13y ago
There's actually a lot of weirdness with certain bits of DOM events and screenreaders, with some portions updating more often than others. You'll run into situations where some updates will fire, and others won't unless your careful, and use ARIA tagging properly.
- mistercow 13y ago
  That's very strange. I wonder what the technical reason for doing it that way is.

evanmoran 13y ago

Since OJ can render server side it should come down to people as the HTML/CSS screen readers know and love. One way to think about OJ is as a fancy new Jade-like templating system. If screen readers work off of Jade (and I believe they do) then they should work off of OJ as well.

Sanddancer 13y ago
That I can understand. I think the biggest thing that was rather off-putting about this project is that it seems that you're selling it as throwing Javascript blobs to the client to render, instead of as a primarily server-side templating system, which makes a lot more sense. However, it does lead to a request to put in support for ARIA tagging ( http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/aria ), because if anything, baking accessibility support like this into a templating language makes it easier for people to reach disabled people who want to view sites. I've got to apologize for the harsh tone of the original posting. I have a few friends who are either legally or totally blind, and have had to help them try to find software that is reader-compatible so they can interact with the world around them. So seeing the "everything is dynamic" ability sold as the big reason to use this templating language, and knowing that readers can get confused if there's a lot of weird actions going on with the DOM, made me frustrated that there was yet another tool made that will further alienate these people, and make it harder to use one of the most awesome tools made for communications. Too many people take a path that is essentially "fuck the blind", which is just saddenning.