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> Why do you hate advertising as a business so much? Because advertisers are in the business of lying. The measure of success in advertising is the persuasiven

by lutusp 13y ago

> Why do you hate advertising as a business so much? Because advertisers are in the business of lying. The measure of success in advertising is the persuasiveness of one's lies. > I think mass media and shady ad practices have painted a terrible image of the advertising business model. Advertisements that prey on human weakness, pop ups, auto-play etc... but that doesn't mean that the advertising model is completely broken. This reminds me of the child molester's defense: "So? Who's perfect?" > Anyway, I'm THANKFUL to this new age of advertising which allows my business to run and introduces me to apps, services and products I want to use. It's always nice to see someone ask an question on HN who doesn't already have his mind made up, and who doesn't post simply to express a slanted editorial view of the topic.

bediger4000 13y ago
Because advertisers are in the business of lying. The measure of success in advertising is the persuasiveness of one's lies. Those two sentences sum it up for me. I've taught my children to be wary of all ads because advertising is all lies, or at the very best, as close to lying as someone can get and still not tell an untruth. As far as the cabbie and the ad executive above, how does the ad executive know that the cabbie was either (a) telling the truth or (b) influenced by ads? Perhaps the cabbie tried a lot of toothpastes before settling on Crest. Secondarily, advertising seems to influence content overly much, no matter how much the content people protest. Stories get spiked because advertisers squawk, reporters get fired or hog-tied because advertisers squawk, products of advertisers get better reviews. And don't tell me that doesn't happen, it does.
- nfailor 13y ago
  again, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of advertising. http://www.commissionedwriting.com/CONFESSIONS%20OF%20AN%20ADVERTISING%20MAN%20-%20OGILVY.pdf http://www.commissionedwriting.com/CONFESSIONS%20OF%20AN%20A...
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > again, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of advertising. Nice article, but it confuses advertising's role with advertising's practice. You know the old saying "the first casualty of battle is the battle plan"? It works the same in advertising -- the most well-intentioned people become mesmerized by the bottom line, and principles go out the window.
    - nfailor 13y ago
      yes, the ROI centric approach is problematic--but that's client side.
  - bediger4000 13y ago
    That's not at all effective - David Ogilvy is an ad agency executive, in the business of lying, or so I (and others) believe. Even if we believe that advertising is not all about lyig, the PDF is all about how to get and keep clients. It's a pitch to other ad agencies, Ogilvy's competitors. Why shouldn't Ogilvy pitch a little disinformation their way, might keep the wolves from the door a day or two longe, eh wot? The "perfidious Albion" stereotype would seem to apply here. Caveat Emptor would seem to apply in large quantities.
RogerL 13y ago
So, today, when I searched for a notary public in my area, expecting to have to trawl through yelp or angie list type crap to just find a local place, and instead I was pleasantly surprised with an ad for a place very close to me that offered everything I needed (I needed more than the notary service), they were lying to me? Odd, it sure seemed legit. I know what you mean, you are talking about the 'soapX cleans brighter!" which of course is a contentless sentence intended to deceive, and I am with you there. But I think what is awesome about things like Adwords is it gives the small local business the ability to reach the people that are looking for them. Instead of dealing with some horrible chain I ended up at a tiny mom-and-pop shop, found out they had other services I've been looking for unsuccessfully, and now they have a guaranteed customer in me. I think that is great for me, and great for them, because they only paid a tiny amount for my click, and got a customer from it. It's not perfect; I've just done several searches just to see what will turn up, things like 'kayak rental half moon bay' and such, and am not getting very good ad results. But sometimes they are spot on, more spot on than the google search results.
- nfailor 13y ago
  which is a client-centric failure. convincing a small business (such as a kayak rental outfit) why that they ought to invest in targeted search [which would have a favorable effect] gets a lot harder when they're only pitched for the scammier side of things.

by lutusp 13y ago

bediger4000 13y ago

Because advertisers are in the business of lying. The measure of success in advertising is the persuasiveness of one's lies. Those two sentences sum it up for me. I've taught my children to be wary of all ads because advertising is all lies, or at the very best, as close to lying as someone can get and still not tell an untruth. As far as the cabbie and the ad executive above, how does the ad executive know that the cabbie was either (a) telling the truth or (b) influenced by ads? Perhaps the cabbie tried a lot of toothpastes before settling on Crest. Secondarily, advertising seems to influence content overly much, no matter how much the content people protest. Stories get spiked because advertisers squawk, reporters get fired or hog-tied because advertisers squawk, products of advertisers get better reviews. And don't tell me that doesn't happen, it does.

nfailor 13y ago
again, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of advertising. http://www.commissionedwriting.com/CONFESSIONS%20OF%20AN%20ADVERTISING%20MAN%20-%20OGILVY.pdf http://www.commissionedwriting.com/CONFESSIONS%20OF%20AN%20A...
- lutusp 13y ago
  > again, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of advertising. Nice article, but it confuses advertising's role with advertising's practice. You know the old saying "the first casualty of battle is the battle plan"? It works the same in advertising -- the most well-intentioned people become mesmerized by the bottom line, and principles go out the window.
  - nfailor 13y ago
    yes, the ROI centric approach is problematic--but that's client side.
- bediger4000 13y ago
  That's not at all effective - David Ogilvy is an ad agency executive, in the business of lying, or so I (and others) believe. Even if we believe that advertising is not all about lyig, the PDF is all about how to get and keep clients. It's a pitch to other ad agencies, Ogilvy's competitors. Why shouldn't Ogilvy pitch a little disinformation their way, might keep the wolves from the door a day or two longe, eh wot? The "perfidious Albion" stereotype would seem to apply here. Caveat Emptor would seem to apply in large quantities.

RogerL 13y ago

So, today, when I searched for a notary public in my area, expecting to have to trawl through yelp or angie list type crap to just find a local place, and instead I was pleasantly surprised with an ad for a place very close to me that offered everything I needed (I needed more than the notary service), they were lying to me? Odd, it sure seemed legit. I know what you mean, you are talking about the 'soapX cleans brighter!" which of course is a contentless sentence intended to deceive, and I am with you there. But I think what is awesome about things like Adwords is it gives the small local business the ability to reach the people that are looking for them. Instead of dealing with some horrible chain I ended up at a tiny mom-and-pop shop, found out they had other services I've been looking for unsuccessfully, and now they have a guaranteed customer in me. I think that is great for me, and great for them, because they only paid a tiny amount for my click, and got a customer from it. It's not perfect; I've just done several searches just to see what will turn up, things like 'kayak rental half moon bay' and such, and am not getting very good ad results. But sometimes they are spot on, more spot on than the google search results.

nfailor 13y ago
which is a client-centric failure. convincing a small business (such as a kayak rental outfit) why that they ought to invest in targeted search [which would have a favorable effect] gets a lot harder when they're only pitched for the scammier side of things.