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As someone who did make such a change, I agree with this. I'm assuming the parent did not intend it as trolling, as I don't.
by mildtrepidation 13y ago
As someone who did make such a change, I agree with this. I'm assuming the parent did not intend it as trolling, as I don't.
- astrodust 13y agoI wish there were more stories of people who've gone "post-PHP", talking about their experiences. "PHP developers", by which I mean developers that know PHP and PHP only, are the first to throw a fit when their language is criticized. This is especially awkward as most PHP developers don't even observe best practices for developing with PHP, insisting on using obsolete versions, write hazardously bad SQL queries with so much moaning about how it's not a big deal, and get absolutely irate when you suggest they use an application platform instead of rolling everything by hand. There's something to be said for using a language where the community encourages people do to it properly, and everyone's trying to make an effort to move forward together.
- jcroll 13y agoThe PHP community is moving forward and trying to do things the right way. Checkout http://www.phptherightway.com/ http://www.phptherightway.com/ Also checkout the Symfony components and how many large open source PHP projects are using them: * Symfony Framework * Drupal * Laravel * Silex * phpBB * Guzzle Then there's Composer (which also uses Symfony components) and PHP-FIG. The list goes on. What you need is more modern PHP developers advocating on boards like HN how good PHP has become, not how much better other ecosystems are than what PHP was five years ago.
- astrodust 13y agoA small fragment of the PHP community is doing things better than the rest, but it still seems like there's a lot of untamed wilderness out there. StackOverflow is filled with people who've suffered badly at the hands of w3schools and various atrocious YouTube tutorials which perpetuate the absolute worst practices from the 1990s. Perhaps the problem isn't having good resources so much as getting rid of the bad ones. PHP still has a long, long way to go. The rampant infighting in the core team, the completely incoherent API and language design, the lack of innovation on core libraries, none of this is very encouraging.
- jcroll 13y agoThere's a lot of encouraging things such as the list I just mentioned and the subject of this article HHVM. If you want to bury your head in the sand and continue to hum the tired "PHP is a fractal of bad design" chorus go ahead but please excuse those of us doing modern PHP development for really enjoying it, and being quite excited about it.
- astrodust 13y agoWhat I don't understand is what there is to enjoy. Nobody ever communicates this effectively. PHP is a greasy pig at the best of times. You can kit it out all you want and it still isn't a first-class scripting language, it's only a web-site scripting system, and the way it's designed it will only ever be a web-site scripting system. The only advantage to PHP has been, in historical terms, its ubiquity. Most if not all hosts support it. However, this is a blessing in disguise. Most of these hosts only support PHP 5.2 or maybe PHP 5.3, usually trailing two or three releases behind what's current. For those who write WordPress-like "download, install on server" packages, sure, PHP is an effective delivery platform, but I'd hardly call it a great programming language. Maybe I'm missing something, though, but I've never seen anything about PHP that's made me go "Yeah, I wish I had that in X language", but it's often the case in reverse. I've done a lot of Python, Ruby, Perl, C++, Objective-C, and JavaScript and each of these has something interesting about them, a style that meshes well with their design philosophy. What does PHP bring to the table that means choosing PHP is a good idea as opposed to just doing PHP by default?