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Well, one could always argue that current educational system is much less effective for those with lower IQ and therefore in school only the semblance of equali

by vdaniuk 13y ago

Well, one could always argue that current educational system is much less effective for those with lower IQ and therefore in school only the semblance of equality is assured. This is evidenced by the number of children failing high school. Approximate figures are: 25% for US, 5% for wealthy northern european countries

lutusp 13y ago
> Well, one could always argue that current educational system is much less effective for those with lower IQ and therefore in school only the semblance of equality is assured. Actually, because of special education programs, those with both lower and higher IQs than the average get more attention than in the older system, which tended to focus on the average student. But for reasons I gave earlier there's an effort to maintain balance between resources expended for those above, ad below, the mean. This effort isn't always successful -- I'm speaking of a principle that isn't always a fact. > This is evidenced by the number of children failing high school. Approximate figures are: 25% for US, 5% for wealthy northern european countries. That's true but low IQ isn't necessarily the reason. There are other reasons -- a lax attitude toward education, anti-intellectualism in society as a whole, poor social discipline, and others. There are some results suggesting that bright kids drop out of school at high rates -- almost as high as the average dropout rate -- unfortunately the data aren't very reliable. This study (PDF warning): http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1356&context=doctoral http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl... Says: "Out of all high school dropouts, as many as 20% of them may be gifted (Renzulli & Park, 2000);" If that were true, then the gifted dropout rate almost equals that for average kids. But when we read the referenced article (PDF warning): http://www.sagepub.com/bjohnsonstudy/articles/Renzulli.pdf http://www.sagepub.com/bjohnsonstudy/articles/Renzulli.pdf We don't see the quoted figure, only references to other sources for a figure near 20%, but nothing reliable. I say this because I don't like throwing figures around that have no reliable basis. All I can say is there seems to be some anecdotal evidence that bright kids drop out in numbers nearly as high as average kids. There's another way to approach this -- we can look at adult achievement, although the link with IQ is problematical. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson, and many other well-known figures in society are (a) evidently gifted, and (b) dropouts from high school or college. I have to say I was surprised to discover there's no readily available, reliable IQ breakdown for dropouts. There are a huge number of psychologists, many unemployed or underemployed ... http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/09/10/219372252/the-most-and-least-lucrative-college-majors-in-1-graph http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/09/10/219372252/the-most... ... many of them studying really silly things, but none of them have taken this issue on, in spite of its importance. But I don't think the case can be made that those to the left of the IQ average are being unfairly treated, compared to the average or the gifted. I think they're all being treated equally badly. :)

by vdaniuk 13y ago

lutusp 13y ago

> Well, one could always argue that current educational system is much less effective for those with lower IQ and therefore in school only the semblance of equality is assured. Actually, because of special education programs, those with both lower and higher IQs than the average get more attention than in the older system, which tended to focus on the average student. But for reasons I gave earlier there's an effort to maintain balance between resources expended for those above, ad below, the mean. This effort isn't always successful -- I'm speaking of a principle that isn't always a fact. > This is evidenced by the number of children failing high school. Approximate figures are: 25% for US, 5% for wealthy northern european countries. That's true but low IQ isn't necessarily the reason. There are other reasons -- a lax attitude toward education, anti-intellectualism in society as a whole, poor social discipline, and others. There are some results suggesting that bright kids drop out of school at high rates -- almost as high as the average dropout rate -- unfortunately the data aren't very reliable. This study (PDF warning): http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1356&context=doctoral http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl... Says: "Out of all high school dropouts, as many as 20% of them may be gifted (Renzulli & Park, 2000);" If that were true, then the gifted dropout rate almost equals that for average kids. But when we read the referenced article (PDF warning): http://www.sagepub.com/bjohnsonstudy/articles/Renzulli.pdf http://www.sagepub.com/bjohnsonstudy/articles/Renzulli.pdf We don't see the quoted figure, only references to other sources for a figure near 20%, but nothing reliable. I say this because I don't like throwing figures around that have no reliable basis. All I can say is there seems to be some anecdotal evidence that bright kids drop out in numbers nearly as high as average kids. There's another way to approach this -- we can look at adult achievement, although the link with IQ is problematical. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson, and many other well-known figures in society are (a) evidently gifted, and (b) dropouts from high school or college. I have to say I was surprised to discover there's no readily available, reliable IQ breakdown for dropouts. There are a huge number of psychologists, many unemployed or underemployed ... http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/09/10/219372252/the-most-and-least-lucrative-college-majors-in-1-graph http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/09/10/219372252/the-most... ... many of them studying really silly things, but none of them have taken this issue on, in spite of its importance. But I don't think the case can be made that those to the left of the IQ average are being unfairly treated, compared to the average or the gifted. I think they're all being treated equally badly. :)