4 ms·

You didn't find racism, you found accusations of racism made on the internet. The difference is enough to make me think the title should be different. A large

You didn't find racism, you found accusations of racism made on the internet. The difference is enough to make me think the title should be different. A larger number of accusations of racism might indicate a problem, but there is no way to get there from just the data available on yelp. Disclaimer: Live in Houston. Not super-attached, but figured we may as well get that out there.

denzil_correa 13y ago
> You didn't find racism FWIW, the author never claims he did.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  The title originally said something like 'How I Found Racism Using Yelp', which I thought was inaccurate. The linked article was clear about the distinction.
- drone 13y ago
  Actually, yes, read the previous blog post that this one is a follow-up to. As a long-time resident of Houston, he's tied himself into a well-known issue that's been talked about for some time [1][2][3]. (Heck, he probably linked a bunch of these in the previous article.) The point he's left out -- nearly every specific incident that's been discussed has revolved around a specific set of bars, that are, umm, largely seen as catering to the "bro" community. (I guess that's how you could call it.) There are a lot of popular bars/clubs outside of the area of these specific bars/clubs that have never been known to be racist. Note how nearly every bar he references in his data is within a mile or two of each other. I think the implied extrapolation out to all of Houston is a big stretch, and certainly doesn't follow my experience having lived here for nearly 20 years. But then again, I'm not looking for examples of racism. I'm certain they're easy to come across on all sides of the issue (black on white, white on black, black on brown, white on brown, and so forth) if you were to go looking. [1] http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2011/01/racism_and_houston_clubs_the_n.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2011/01/racism_and_houst... [2] http://www.yelp.com/topic/houston-racism-and-profiling-at-clubs http://www.yelp.com/topic/houston-racism-and-profiling-at-cl... [3] http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/02-11-12-15-44-new-details-emerge-in-alleged-club-racism-dynamo-player-arrest-case-protests-planned-on-washington-ave/ http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/02-11-12-15-44-new...
  - justin66 13y ago
    > I think the implied extrapolation out to all of Houston is a big stretch, and certainly doesn't follow my experience having lived here for nearly 20 years. But then again, I'm not looking for examples of racism. I'm certain they're easy to come across on all sides of the issue (black on white, white on black, black on brown, white on brown, and so forth) if you were to go looking. I'm not eliciting any personal information from you but this assessment is infinitely more meaningful if you're a member of one of the minority groups typically discriminated against. Those are the groups that don't have to "go looking" for discrimination, and their social networks are such that they'll know about it even if they don't have much personal experience with it.
justin66 13y ago
> A larger number of accusations of racism might indicate a problem, but there is no way to get there from just the data available on yelp. Is it sample size you're concerned with or do you have some sort of existential problem with relying on the veracity of these sorts of reviews? I don't actually know how many negative reviews of this sort it would take to keep me out of a place. I'm not a habitual yelp user (and I'm white, although I would happily boycott a place where this sort of thing takes place) and so I've never had to consider this. It wouldn't take more than one such report from a real-life acquaintance, however.
- slykat 13y ago
  FYI the sample size for Houston ~25K comments left on businesses categorized as bars or clubs. The entire sample set (across all cities) is >1M.
slykat 13y ago
I think the bigger question is why does Houston look so different when you compare to other cities? Yes, I can't tie it to incidents of racism, but something must be driving the fact that the term occurs dramatically higher than any of the large cities. Disclaimer: I was born and raised in Houston.
- karlkatzke 13y ago
  I'm not sure. I lived in Houston for three years and we left because of the crime in the part of town that we lived in. We could have moved to a "safer" area, but it was "safer" because it was a socioeconomic monoculture with defined borders and a private police force, not because it was actually safe. We chose just to move to a different city rather than embody "white flight"... In the part of town that I lived in, which was the Energy Corridor along I-10 between Beltway 8 and George Bush Park, racial tension was pretty harsh. You had haves and have-nots. Most of the have-nots were notably of one culture or another (depending on which block you were on), and they were pretty merciless about taking advantage of the haves, which were also a monoculture based on the area. Houston was the first place I've had my car broken into repeatedly, to the point that I started leaving the doors unlocked and the windows rolled down regardless of weather. (A plastic seat cover is cheaper than new windows.) Houston was the first place that I've been very happy that I owned dogs, and considered owning a gun. I grew up not locking doors; Houston made me form a routine of checking doors, security bars, deadlocks, door blocks, and window locks and setting the alarm before bed. The Energy Corridor was NOT cheap to live in, and we rented a modest sized house. That part of town has 1980s era architecture where few, if any, windows face the street. I grew up with block parties and knowing your neighbors and talking at the mailbox. Everyone in my neighborhood in Houston, regardless of color, rolled right into the garage and the door came down. I don't know why it's that way, but I suspect it was that cultures self-segregate instead of mix. Personally, I hope to never need to find out, because I'm not coming back, even to visit.
- angersock 13y ago
  Houston is pretty much the perfect example of the once-touted multiethnic future of the US. We've got a large number of people, a large diversity of socioecoethnic backgrounds, and we are a much more integrated city due to lack of zoning and only relatively recent gentrification. Additionally, note that there was an (arguably recent) influx of folks from New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina--that had lasting economic and demographic impacts on large parts of Houston, especially around Reliant.

denzil_correa 13y ago

> You didn't find racism FWIW, the author never claims he did.

cobrausn 13y ago
The title originally said something like 'How I Found Racism Using Yelp', which I thought was inaccurate. The linked article was clear about the distinction.
drone 13y ago
Actually, yes, read the previous blog post that this one is a follow-up to. As a long-time resident of Houston, he's tied himself into a well-known issue that's been talked about for some time [1][2][3]. (Heck, he probably linked a bunch of these in the previous article.) The point he's left out -- nearly every specific incident that's been discussed has revolved around a specific set of bars, that are, umm, largely seen as catering to the "bro" community. (I guess that's how you could call it.) There are a lot of popular bars/clubs outside of the area of these specific bars/clubs that have never been known to be racist. Note how nearly every bar he references in his data is within a mile or two of each other. I think the implied extrapolation out to all of Houston is a big stretch, and certainly doesn't follow my experience having lived here for nearly 20 years. But then again, I'm not looking for examples of racism. I'm certain they're easy to come across on all sides of the issue (black on white, white on black, black on brown, white on brown, and so forth) if you were to go looking. [1] http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2011/01/racism_and_houston_clubs_the_n.php http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/2011/01/racism_and_houst... [2] http://www.yelp.com/topic/houston-racism-and-profiling-at-clubs http://www.yelp.com/topic/houston-racism-and-profiling-at-cl... [3] http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/02-11-12-15-44-new-details-emerge-in-alleged-club-racism-dynamo-player-arrest-case-protests-planned-on-washington-ave/ http://houston.culturemap.com/news/sports/02-11-12-15-44-new...
- justin66 13y ago
  > I think the implied extrapolation out to all of Houston is a big stretch, and certainly doesn't follow my experience having lived here for nearly 20 years. But then again, I'm not looking for examples of racism. I'm certain they're easy to come across on all sides of the issue (black on white, white on black, black on brown, white on brown, and so forth) if you were to go looking. I'm not eliciting any personal information from you but this assessment is infinitely more meaningful if you're a member of one of the minority groups typically discriminated against. Those are the groups that don't have to "go looking" for discrimination, and their social networks are such that they'll know about it even if they don't have much personal experience with it.

justin66 13y ago

> A larger number of accusations of racism might indicate a problem, but there is no way to get there from just the data available on yelp. Is it sample size you're concerned with or do you have some sort of existential problem with relying on the veracity of these sorts of reviews? I don't actually know how many negative reviews of this sort it would take to keep me out of a place. I'm not a habitual yelp user (and I'm white, although I would happily boycott a place where this sort of thing takes place) and so I've never had to consider this. It wouldn't take more than one such report from a real-life acquaintance, however.

slykat 13y ago
FYI the sample size for Houston ~25K comments left on businesses categorized as bars or clubs. The entire sample set (across all cities) is >1M.

slykat 13y ago

I think the bigger question is why does Houston look so different when you compare to other cities? Yes, I can't tie it to incidents of racism, but something must be driving the fact that the term occurs dramatically higher than any of the large cities. Disclaimer: I was born and raised in Houston.

karlkatzke 13y ago
I'm not sure. I lived in Houston for three years and we left because of the crime in the part of town that we lived in. We could have moved to a "safer" area, but it was "safer" because it was a socioeconomic monoculture with defined borders and a private police force, not because it was actually safe. We chose just to move to a different city rather than embody "white flight"... In the part of town that I lived in, which was the Energy Corridor along I-10 between Beltway 8 and George Bush Park, racial tension was pretty harsh. You had haves and have-nots. Most of the have-nots were notably of one culture or another (depending on which block you were on), and they were pretty merciless about taking advantage of the haves, which were also a monoculture based on the area. Houston was the first place I've had my car broken into repeatedly, to the point that I started leaving the doors unlocked and the windows rolled down regardless of weather. (A plastic seat cover is cheaper than new windows.) Houston was the first place that I've been very happy that I owned dogs, and considered owning a gun. I grew up not locking doors; Houston made me form a routine of checking doors, security bars, deadlocks, door blocks, and window locks and setting the alarm before bed. The Energy Corridor was NOT cheap to live in, and we rented a modest sized house. That part of town has 1980s era architecture where few, if any, windows face the street. I grew up with block parties and knowing your neighbors and talking at the mailbox. Everyone in my neighborhood in Houston, regardless of color, rolled right into the garage and the door came down. I don't know why it's that way, but I suspect it was that cultures self-segregate instead of mix. Personally, I hope to never need to find out, because I'm not coming back, even to visit.
angersock 13y ago
Houston is pretty much the perfect example of the once-touted multiethnic future of the US. We've got a large number of people, a large diversity of socioecoethnic backgrounds, and we are a much more integrated city due to lack of zoning and only relatively recent gentrification. Additionally, note that there was an (arguably recent) influx of folks from New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina--that had lasting economic and demographic impacts on large parts of Houston, especially around Reliant.