5 ms·

Isn't this all just a matter of supply and demand? There are a lot more young people willing to work in this industry than there are positions, so those people

Isn't this all just a matter of supply and demand? There are a lot more young people willing to work in this industry than there are positions, so those people who actually get the jobs have to put up with all kinds of stupid shit. I've never understood why these employees (who are clearly quite intelligent) don't just pursue another career where they have more leverage. After all, I don't think they have any particular love for banking. Being on HN, the obvious suggestion would be software development (not a bad choice, considering the current state of the market), but there are a lot of other options out there as well.

Mikeb85 13y ago
Because banking makes a hell of a lot more money.
- danielrmay 13y ago
  The intern was set to make £45,000 / pa (not including bonuses) as an Analyst, but I suppose it opens doors.
  - adam-a 13y ago
    For an entry level position that's probably 1.5-2.5x what a software dev could expect to make in the UK. In my experience at least.
    - danielrmay 13y ago
      London is different in this manner - an entry level software developer position (at a consultancy, bank, hedge-fund, etc) can go from 35k-45k. Outside of London (as I'm sure you're aware), this could be offered as a senior developer salary.
      - adam-a 13y ago
        I'm in London, albeit not in a bank or hedge-fund. Perhaps I should be asking for a raise :)
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    In that industry bonuses will increase your salary by double or more... Junior analysts in a big bank/hedge fund can expect to make as much (or slightly more) than a senior programmer in Silicon Valley.
    - danielrmay 13y ago
      I work in that industry, and that's not quite the case any more. Bonuses for junior analysts can reach up to around 50% (which nearly every other profession could never expect), but they would never exceed base salary. Anybody saying otherwise has been reading too many tabloids. You can find out more details about salaries in this area by using a site like glassdoor.com. This 100%+ bonus culture is simply not true (now).
      - michaelochurch 13y ago
        100+% bonuses still exist, but for VP and higher and in high-performing groups. Analysts aren't getting those post-2008. Typically a VP in a high-performing group will outrank an ED or MD in a lower-ranking group (say, $150+300k vs. $300+100k).
    - w1ntermute 13y ago
      According to people working in the industry in NYC that I talked to, a lot of the bonuses dried up after the financial crisis. Nowadays, the income for someone starting out (not an intern, but as a full time job after college) is only $80-90k.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - sspiff 13y ago
    That's not a bad salary for an intern position, especially if there are bonuses involved. In a lot of industries, internships are unpaid or very poorly paid. Software development pays rather well, but I certainly didn't make that kind of money on summer jobs.
    - danielrmay 13y ago
      This was not the salary for the internship - this is the salary of the position that this guy was about to be offered -- after his internship
      - sam_bwut 13y ago
        It was probably the same salary for the internship minus bonus's - the IBD interns here are all on 45k + 1k signing, grad is normally about 5k signing and a bonus guaranteed by HR at at least a set level.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
parasight 13y ago
It is rather a matter of missing regulations.
- pc86 13y ago
  And what regulation(s) would you suggest? People always suggest "more regulation!" as if it's some magical panacea.
  - danielrmay 13y ago
    And don't forget, if your regulations are too difficult to conform to, these banks and hedge funds will simply move operations to somewhere less stringent.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    Well, we could remove their existing optout from the Working Time Directive. As to the "but they'll just leave for the Third World!" claim below: 1) it's a networking-based industry. Everyone would have to move at once, or at least a very large chunk. 2) They would have to move to somewhere in the same time zone (finance has outposts in NY, London and Singapore/HK that cover the day in 3 8-hour trading days). I suppose that's less relevant if you're working 20 hours a day. 3) They'd have to move to somewhere similarly cosmopolitan to London. No point in making all that money if you can't walk out the door and find somewhere to spend it in your few precious hours off. That rules out much of the African continent, although there are expat clusters in Angola and UAE.
  - parasight 13y ago
    Regulations seem to me a lot less magical than the free market. I live in a country with a lot of regulations when it comes to working time and it does not seem to harm. It is one of the strongest economies in the world. I guess the market can live with it. There are strict limits for extra hours. As an employee working more than 48 hours per week is allowed only as an exception and working more than 60 hours per week is simply put illegal. Extra time has to be balanced with free time. We also have a minimum of 24 payed vacation days. Most people have more.
- 13y ago
wutbrodo 13y ago
> The obvious suggestion would be software development Looking anecdotally at friends in software and in finance (I went to a school with a great reputation for both cs and business ) , a good software engineering (at a good company) is not trivial to get into. On the flipside, banking was what you did if you had no discernible skills.
michaelochurch 13y ago
I've never understood why these employees (who are clearly quite intelligent) don't just pursue another career where they have more leverage. After all, I don't think they have any particular love for banking. Being on HN, the obvious suggestion would be software development (not a bad choice, considering the current state of the market), but there are a lot of other options out there as well. If you fail in software, then you're just an out-of-work programmer. If you fail in banking, you take a two-year timeout at Harvard Business School and raise a search fund before you're 30. The upside of software is arguably better (fatter rightward tail, more interesting work, more impact, less tied to NYC and London) but the insurance is not there.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > If you fail in banking, you take a two-year timeout at Harvard Business School and raise a search fund before you're 30. Uhh, what? How many people can get into HBS? I don't think it's that simple. OTOH, if you fail in software, you just find another job - that's what the market is like right now.

Mikeb85 13y ago

Because banking makes a hell of a lot more money.

danielrmay 13y ago
The intern was set to make £45,000 / pa (not including bonuses) as an Analyst, but I suppose it opens doors.
- adam-a 13y ago
  For an entry level position that's probably 1.5-2.5x what a software dev could expect to make in the UK. In my experience at least.
  - danielrmay 13y ago
    London is different in this manner - an entry level software developer position (at a consultancy, bank, hedge-fund, etc) can go from 35k-45k. Outside of London (as I'm sure you're aware), this could be offered as a senior developer salary.
    - adam-a 13y ago
      I'm in London, albeit not in a bank or hedge-fund. Perhaps I should be asking for a raise :)
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  In that industry bonuses will increase your salary by double or more... Junior analysts in a big bank/hedge fund can expect to make as much (or slightly more) than a senior programmer in Silicon Valley.
  - danielrmay 13y ago
    I work in that industry, and that's not quite the case any more. Bonuses for junior analysts can reach up to around 50% (which nearly every other profession could never expect), but they would never exceed base salary. Anybody saying otherwise has been reading too many tabloids. You can find out more details about salaries in this area by using a site like glassdoor.com. This 100%+ bonus culture is simply not true (now).
    - michaelochurch 13y ago
      100+% bonuses still exist, but for VP and higher and in high-performing groups. Analysts aren't getting those post-2008. Typically a VP in a high-performing group will outrank an ED or MD in a lower-ranking group (say, $150+300k vs. $300+100k).
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    According to people working in the industry in NYC that I talked to, a lot of the bonuses dried up after the financial crisis. Nowadays, the income for someone starting out (not an intern, but as a full time job after college) is only $80-90k.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- sspiff 13y ago
  That's not a bad salary for an intern position, especially if there are bonuses involved. In a lot of industries, internships are unpaid or very poorly paid. Software development pays rather well, but I certainly didn't make that kind of money on summer jobs.
  - danielrmay 13y ago
    This was not the salary for the internship - this is the salary of the position that this guy was about to be offered -- after his internship
    - sam_bwut 13y ago
      It was probably the same salary for the internship minus bonus's - the IBD interns here are all on 45k + 1k signing, grad is normally about 5k signing and a bonus guaranteed by HR at at least a set level.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

parasight 13y ago

It is rather a matter of missing regulations.

pc86 13y ago
And what regulation(s) would you suggest? People always suggest "more regulation!" as if it's some magical panacea.
- danielrmay 13y ago
  And don't forget, if your regulations are too difficult to conform to, these banks and hedge funds will simply move operations to somewhere less stringent.
- pjc50 13y ago
  Well, we could remove their existing optout from the Working Time Directive. As to the "but they'll just leave for the Third World!" claim below: 1) it's a networking-based industry. Everyone would have to move at once, or at least a very large chunk. 2) They would have to move to somewhere in the same time zone (finance has outposts in NY, London and Singapore/HK that cover the day in 3 8-hour trading days). I suppose that's less relevant if you're working 20 hours a day. 3) They'd have to move to somewhere similarly cosmopolitan to London. No point in making all that money if you can't walk out the door and find somewhere to spend it in your few precious hours off. That rules out much of the African continent, although there are expat clusters in Angola and UAE.
- parasight 13y ago
  Regulations seem to me a lot less magical than the free market. I live in a country with a lot of regulations when it comes to working time and it does not seem to harm. It is one of the strongest economies in the world. I guess the market can live with it. There are strict limits for extra hours. As an employee working more than 48 hours per week is allowed only as an exception and working more than 60 hours per week is simply put illegal. Extra time has to be balanced with free time. We also have a minimum of 24 payed vacation days. Most people have more.
13y ago

wutbrodo 13y ago

> The obvious suggestion would be software development Looking anecdotally at friends in software and in finance (I went to a school with a great reputation for both cs and business ) , a good software engineering (at a good company) is not trivial to get into. On the flipside, banking was what you did if you had no discernible skills.

michaelochurch 13y ago

I've never understood why these employees (who are clearly quite intelligent) don't just pursue another career where they have more leverage. After all, I don't think they have any particular love for banking. Being on HN, the obvious suggestion would be software development (not a bad choice, considering the current state of the market), but there are a lot of other options out there as well. If you fail in software, then you're just an out-of-work programmer. If you fail in banking, you take a two-year timeout at Harvard Business School and raise a search fund before you're 30. The upside of software is arguably better (fatter rightward tail, more interesting work, more impact, less tied to NYC and London) but the insurance is not there.

w1ntermute 13y ago
> If you fail in banking, you take a two-year timeout at Harvard Business School and raise a search fund before you're 30. Uhh, what? How many people can get into HBS? I don't think it's that simple. OTOH, if you fail in software, you just find another job - that's what the market is like right now.