8 ms·

"I have come to find out what it's like to be dumb."

224 points by luigi 13y ago

jonnathanson 13y ago
"Depression, at least as I’m experiencing it, is the absence of emotion, rather than negative emotion. I don’t mind it, not yet, but maybe depression is what keeps me from minding depression." More likely, what you experienced was anhedonia, a symptom of certain types of depression. Anhedonia is technically defined as the inability to experience pleasure from once-enjoyable activities, but those I know who've suffered from it have often described it in terms very similar to yours. They say things like "I just didn't care about anything," or "it was like I was bored of being bored, but too bored to do anything about it." To simplify depression -- a neurologically and idiosyncratically complex phenomenon -- as the "absence of emotion" is to mischaracterize the affliction. There are other shades of depression in which emotion is, if anything, severely heightened and labile. Pure, raw, unfiltered anguish. The absolute lack of hope. Like the shit they talk about in the Harry Potter books, when the dementors suck out your soul (incidentally, Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling battled with severe depression, and she modeled said dementors off of the suffering she went through).
- skunkworks 13y ago
  A salient point re: the existence of different types of depression. Some cause a physical slowness (can't get out of bed), some cause anhedonia, some are the dementor type, etc.
  - bayesianhorse 13y ago
    Some depressive patients experience all of these symptoms and a lot worse.
  - girvo 13y ago
    I personally cannot get out of bed and face the world, I am suicidal at nearly all points of the day (but in a curious way; it's more I picture myself killing myself, but not in a "MUST DO THIS NOW" way. Its very odd and disconcerting). I can still experience emotions (all of them), but they are heavily skewed to the negative. I ignore the future, and focus on the past and present. It's a shit disease.
    - mumbi 13y ago
      I feel for you.
    - salemh 13y ago
      I've found this comic very helpful to understand/identify with some of the emotions, swings and frustration with depression (and absolute stagnation). http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...
    - salemh 13y ago
      I've found this comic very helpful to understand/identify with some of the emotions, swings and frustration with depression (and absolute stagnation). http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...
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danbmil99 13y ago
Back in the day, we did this with drugs.
deleted 13y ago
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derefr 13y ago
Grouping all the described symtoms under "depression" (and "stupidity") is a non-helpful way to think about Lyme disease, which messes up all sorts of neurotransmitters. You won't get very far by just comparing your experience to that of a depressed person; variously, the symptoms of Lyme disease can mimic clinical depression (serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), or ADHD (dopamine imbalance), generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue (acetylcholine imbalance), and so on. This is besides the effects that the swelling of brain tissue has on cognitive function, e.g. memory. And I wouldn't equate any of that with what it's like to have a low IQ (what is traditionally thought of as "stupidity.") IQ is a measure, basically, of how little evidence your mind needs to recognize a pattern--thus, low-IQ people being thought of as "dense," and thus sufficiently-high IQ being able to do things like deducing all of physics from a few static pictures[1]. Being dumb doesn't feel like having a bad memory, or thinking slower, or not being able to multitask. It feels like looking at a square peg and a grid of shape-holes, and not (quickly) realizing that "shape" is a relevant property that the holes differ by, such that you should select a hole based on the shape of the peg. It should feel genuinely alienating to try to picture yourself "dumber" than you are--like that you, which you would be, is hard for you to empathize with; like they'd solve problems in entirely different ways, out of necessity for not recognizing patterns as easily. And then you can reflect that intuition to understand what it would be like to be more intelligent than you are: someone who would also solve problems in different ways, for seeing their structure more easily; and someone who would have a hard time empathizing with the decisions a version of themselves, reduced to only your intelligence, would make. --- [1] http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/
- marincounty 13y ago
  I agree with your post, except this part, "mimic clinical depression (serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), or ADHD (dopamine imbalance), generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue (acetylcholine imbalance), and so on. " They really don't know what causes anxiety, or clinical depression. The are having a horrid time finding the true cause of these ailments. If anyone is seeing a MD who claims to know what causes depression and anxiety see someone else. It gotten so disappointing in the research community; very few companies are actively even looking for the root cause to these horrid diseases. So many people took these tri, and hetrocyclic drugs for depression, and if they worked--it was most likely placebo. Yes--panic attacks, and generalized anxiety respond to benzodiazepines most of the time, but hey are addictive, and no researcher who is smart would Not claim to know how they work. I wish you well. I truly believe the best medicine is knowing you are going to get better. The placebo effect is sometimes stronger than any antibiotic. I sometimes believe the placebo effect is the only verifiable existence of God? When I am sick, I do a little research on the Internet, but have found it's better to just believe the medicine will work. Oh yea, I try to chose my doctors well--Board Certified who actually tried to keep current after years of practice.
gregschlom 13y ago
Related and somewhat similar stories from Quora users: http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-to-...
thinkcomp 13y ago
For those who don't know, Waldo Jaquith is something of a national treasure, as the only person in the country who has effectively managed to tackle the problem of standardizing state statutes in an open manner, as they should be. (I managed to get a few on PlainSite, but Waldo's platform has tackled many more by distributing the problem.) Check out The State Decoded at: http://www.statedecoded.com http://www.statedecoded.com We should all hope that Waldo feels better soon. He is anything but stupid.
hellyeasa 13y ago
Good god. What is this pretentious bullshit? This tone of this post was so incredibly ridiculous I had to create an account to ask why it was posted here or taken seriously. This self proclaimed smart person, with heavy emphasis on the self proclaimed part (check out the incredibly smug About page) apparently needs Lyme disease to feel the plight of the oh so pitiful stupid people. News flash, half the population is dumber than average, stop acting like Lyme disease is a cute self reflection on intelligence. I am not attacking your smartness, and please get well soon, but don't be a pretentious asshole. God. South Park's "Smug Alert!" episode perfectly encapsulates the culture of this place sometimes. Over and out.
- fragsworth 13y ago
  You aren't alone, I felt very much the same about this post. It's pretty cringe-worthy...
- maxmcd 13y ago
  For what it's worth, I enjoyed the about page. Didn't seem smug to me at all.
- pgsandstrom 13y ago
  Cut him some slack, he did write it while having Lyme disease...
  - smalltalk 13y ago
    Does having Lyme disease make one an insufferable pretentiously pompous ass?
- eshvk 13y ago
  > News flash, half the population is dumber than average Probably not true. What if the mean is skewed by outliers like incredibly smart people or incredibly dumb people; we could very well be living in the world where most of the people are stupid and the average is what it is because of a very few incredibly smart people. Humorous tangent apart; I can't even imagine thinking like this so-called smart person. If I feel the problem is too easy, I am always trying to figure out harder problems to solve. So much so that I am comfortable with the feeling of being stupid and being befuddled. It merely means I am pushing myself to the edge.
jacquesm 13y ago
Lyme is pretty heavy. Three of my family members have it in various stages, one of them really serious. They live in rural Poland where in the forests it is more or less a given that you will contract Lyme at some point in your life. For foresters it is a better-than-even chance that they contract the disease by the time they are 30 even if they are careful, all it takes is one tick that you didn't spot and you get bitten by ticks all the time there. Lyme disease does not 'make you stupid', but it can make you very ill. One of the possible symptoms is depression, memory loss is another so the symptoms the author describes are very much in the realm of the possible. If you're ever bitten by a tick and you see a bulls-eye pattern around the bite get yourself to a doctor and make sure you are prescribed anti-biotics right away, do not wait (for instance until your holiday is over). I can't emphasize this enough. I don't like anti-biotics for many reasons when they are used without a good reason but Lyme disease is no picnic and the earlier you deal with it the better your chances of complete recovery. Wait too long and you're in for a world of trouble, in case you think I'm exaggerating please read the wikipedia page on Lyme disease or have a chat with my brother in law whose life is pretty much determined by Lyme in a very advanced stage.
- kiisupai 13y ago
  Good advice. I was bitten by a tick three summers ago and received my antibiotics a little too late. As a result I am still suffering from lingering after effects, the most prominent of which would be persistent "brain fog" and a general feeling of mental fatigue. And I am one of the lucky ones as it could've ended a lot worse than that.
- tszyn 13y ago
  A friend of mine recently got a rash (I don't think it was a classic bullseye pattern) and some fatigue. She didn't notice a tick. Went to a doctor, suggested that it might be Lyme disease -- doctor told her if she'd had a tick, she would have noticed it, so it must be allergy. A month later she was in the hospital with a confirmed Lyme diagnosis. If I get an unexplained rash with flu-like symptoms, even if I don't see a tick, I'm taking antibiotics just in case. Better safe than sorry.
  - 13y ago
quark83 13y ago
I created a throwaway account so it's not associated with my normal handle on here. This post brings up something I've been wondering about, and it's something that's really been bothering me the last few years. I feel like I've become significantly less intelligent over time, and I can't figure out if that's really the case, or if it's a different issue that simply makes me feel less intelligent. When I was in high school, everything I learned was simple -- everything was a piece of cake. I would program my TI calculator (with a list of assembly opcodes next to me) at the back of the class and basically ignore the lesson and then get the highest grade on every test. Same in chemistry. Every standardized test I took (SAT, ACT, etc.) gave results in the 99th percentile. Same with the AMC and AIME. I graduated 1/200 in my class. I had all kinds of interesting programming projects in my free time from age 12 to 18. Then I went to college: a STEM school. The first semester went fine; I got all A's. The second semester, I got my first B ever. The third semester, more B's. Eventually a C. My final GPA ended up being 3.5, significantly lower than anything I had been used to. I couldn't stay awake during lessons in class. I was sleepy all the time despite getting good sleep (8-9 hours) every night. I never skipped class, but I may as well have considering how sleepy and groggy as I was. This had never been an issue in high school. I don't ever remember getting sleepy in class then, even if the lecture was boring. Suddenly, new subjects became incomprehensible. The ease at which I previously absorbed new material was gone. Nothing "clicked" anymore. I'm in graduate school now and still nothing "clicks". I attend department seminars where visiting professors present their research, and it may as well be alien gibberish. I feel like I'm just faking my way through grad school at this point. I can still manage A's and B's in classes without ever understanding the content only because of the way the grading system's designed. Luckily, I seemed to have retained my programming capabilities. I can't figure out what caused this. One option is physical: perhaps something chemically changed within my brain. Virus, physical trauma, getting older? No idea really. The other option is environmental. In high school I only had dial-up internet access, so anything I wanted to download, I had to really want. It was an all-day ordeal to get a 3 MB file. It was almost impossible to goof off online. Nowadays I get on the internet and just get distracted. I can't get into side-projects like I used to be able to. I still have the strong desire that I used to, but not the motivation. I don't know where it went; why would my personality just change for the worse like that? I almost wonder if skimming huge amounts of information online has somehow re-trained my brain to not absorb knowledge anymore. Has this happened to anyone else? Have you figured out a way to reverse the process? I would love more than anything to have the incredible clarity with which I used to understand new subjects rather than this fuzzy, muddy feeling with everything I try to learn.
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
Being from Brazil, I didn't even knew such illness existed. Wikipedia says it's endemic to US, Europe and south of Argentina. The symptoms sound pretty bad if untreated. Good to know more about it to pay attention while traveling, these endemic diseases are often hard to diagnose.
javert 13y ago
Can someone please tell me if it's possible to get permanently sick from Lyme disease? (e.g. assume the initial systems are just a flu, get past those, and never realize you have other problems.) Because if so, I might have it. But that's impossible, right? EDIT: Yes, I should ask a doctor, but given the medical situation where I live, it is quite hard to get good advice.
- abecedarius 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Chronic_Lyme_disease_.28CLD.29_and_post-Lyme_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Chronic_Lyme_disea... may be relevant. Good luck.
- hmsimha 13y ago
  If you didn't treat it, then from what I understand, the spirochetes are still in your blood and brain. However, the official response of the medical community is 'no' because they don't have enough evidence to make that claim (from what I understand there is a lot of pressure from insurance companies to not make this a diagnosis that would result in them potentially having to cover years of treatment)
k7gl32 13y ago
Do other people feel their cognitive abilities diminishing as they age? I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, ADHD-Inattentive type, and probably other things that I can't remember right now. I think most of these diagnoses (panic disorder being the only viscerally clear one) are to explain the disparity between my IQ scores throughout the years and my lack of performance in school and life in general. Which, by the way, I know is the dead-horse of tropes for internet comments... As a result of these diagnoses I've taken several classes of medications and several instances within each class. SSRI/(S)NRIs: Prozac, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Strattera, probably others Stimulants: Adderall (XR), Ritalin Benzodiazepines: Klonopin, Xanax, Ativan Weird hypnotic sleep drugs: Ambien, Lunesta I feel like there is a very complex matrix of factors that have contributed to the way I am now (I used to be a pretty normal, social, outgoing, intelligent, excited kid who got bad grades, now I'm kind of a weird dude) and I can't determine the cause. If the cause is depression, I'd like to take the right medication to help with that. If the cause is medication, I'd like to stop taking medication. If this 'slowing down' feeling is something other people my age (25) feel, then maybe I don't need to make a big deal about it. The way the author described his neurotypical self reminds me of who I was 13 years ago before that first diagnosis and that first prescription. I want to feel that clarity again. Right now I feel like I'm brute-forcing through life. And it's working. But I feel about 1/10th the joy/passion I had when I was a kid. Which is a symptom of depression. So I take drugs. That make me feel slow, and prevent me from being deeply depressed. Which might not even happen. I am stuck in a strange loop, but slowly mining my way out.
- pnathan 13y ago
  I believe my cognitive ability has generally remained constant since 15 or so (I'm going on 30 now). However, my experiences and knowledge have networked together such that I am very confident I could drub 15-year-old me at any given intellectual task.
- Scienz 13y ago
  At 29 I've also become somewhat paranoid about age-related cognitive decline. From what little I've looked into it, to the extent you go by the fluid and crystallized intelligence dichotomy, fluid tends to peak at around 25 and crystallized peaks somewhere in the 35-55 range (I've heard multiple numbers from different sources), with major decline beginning around 65. Brain mass also peaks around 25 and loses around 2 grams per year thereafter. The intelligence loss seems to be exponential with age - you'll drop a lot faster between 60 and 70 than you will between 30 and 40. The different peaks for fluid versus crystallized probably affect life outcomes differently depending on lifestyle and profession, e.g. the saying I used to hear from my physics professors that "If you haven't done anything by 30, you never will," or the Primer quote, "What they do with engineers when they turn 40? They take them out back and shoot 'em." On the other hand fields requiring vast recall of domain knowledge like law or medicine probably favor the older crowd that have had decades more time to accumulate, even if they lack the high-level abstract problem solving stuff required more in e.g. physics or math. Some relevant links on all that: http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cognitive-aging11.png http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cognitiv... http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/fluid-and-crystalized-intelligence3.png http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/f... http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd832e64253819688a4eaaaf25eac62b http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd832e64253819688a4eaaa... There's also work on reversing cognitive decline with stem cell therapies: http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html
joshcorbin 13y ago
I'm really still trying to come to terms with the opener: "It’s not like I deserve any credit for being smart. I didn’t do anything to make that happen. I’m also tall, but nobody compliments me on that. (Good job being tall!) Intelligence is an immutable characteristic that I have at times capitalized on and at other times let go to waste." To my layman understanding of psychology, and especially what intelligence research has been uncovering over the last few decades, the exact opposite is the case: - intelligence is far from an immutable trait - we do a lot to influence our own intelligence (perhaps far more than we realize, since much of what we do is due to implicit socialization/upbringing) If you're going to use an analogy to a physical characteristic, than I'd suggest using weight not height: yes there are relevant genetic traits, but they're only a fraction of the story.
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- konstantintin 13y ago
  once you are a fully developed adult, intelligence is normally very stable. an analogy with weight simply doesn't work: anybody can increase their weight simply by eating more, but we don't know of any reliable methods of massively increasing or reducing intellignece.
PeterisP 13y ago
If you state that you feel dumb(er), can this be measured quantitatively in any way? Can you re-take some tests where you know previous results to see if there are significant differences? The described experience makes it hard to distinguish between reduced intelligence as such, versus disbalances in motivational/emotional systems that affect what you[r brain] choose to do, instead of the ability of what you can do. Both can be limiting, but in very different ways.
ck2 13y ago
I really want to make a sarcastic comment about how half of American adults must have this disease but it sounds kinda serious so not going to make fun of it.
- jacquesm 13y ago
  > it sounds kinda serious It is. > not going to make fun of it. Thank you for that. Lyme is a very easy to contract disease depending on where you live and the progressive symptoms are devastating.
  - ck2 13y ago
    Best wishes to you. At least it can be cured? I found this helpful for ignorant folks like me http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/ http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/
    - jacquesm 13y ago
      > Best wishes to you. Thank you, fortunately I don't have it myself but three of my family members do. > At least it can be cured? If you catch it early enough you can get complete recovery. If you catch it a little later you'll have symptoms lasting for months or years, if it starts to progress you might be able to arrest it at some level or slow the progression but it will always keep trying to get worse. And once you reach any of the advanced stages it can not be cured, you're stuck with it for life.
david927 13y ago
Intelligence is an immutable characteristic I get so tired of seeing this. We can't even really define intelligence but I'm guessing this is based on a previous assumption that IQ was static, which we now know it not to be. We need to remember, also, that IQ is not a measure of intelligence.
- fhd2 13y ago
  The author is obviously using colloquial definitions of "intelligence" and "stupidity", but those are even more flawed than the scientific definition attempts. Is a lack of ambition really caused by low intelligence? Can we really put intelligence on a linear scale like that? Makes the whole piece pretty condescending.
- rlanday 13y ago
  Citation needed on both points. Most evidence points to IQ scores being valid measures of intelligence, in that they have some predictive power, especially for average life outcomes for groups of people, and are mostly stable throughout life. For example, look up the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth, which examines life outcomes based on SAT scores at age 12.
  - david927 13y ago
    valid measure ... some predictive power I'm not sure if those two belong in the same sentence. If we were to come up with a point system that measured beauty in women, for example, you could measure pronouncement of cheekbones and thickness of lips, etc. While Angelina Jolie would score well, so would Jocelyn Wildenstein, and Emma Watson would score poorly. Such a system might have "some predictive power" for large population sizes, but could never measure "beauty". Intelligence is qualitative, like beauty, not quantitative, and therefore could never be expressed individually as a number. We would do well to bear that in mind.
BetaCygni 13y ago
It's still well written. I'm not sure how fast the author could churn out good articles when he was feeling good but he is definitely not that stupid now.
nathell 13y ago
If there is something capable of making me drop everything and read an article right at this very instant, then that something is using a quote from "Flowers for Algernon" as the title. Thanks to Waldo for sharing his being Charlie Gordon. I hope he recovers.
pluti34 13y ago
I've had a similar experience due to coming down with a condition called occipital neuralgia (essentially compressed and/or damaged nerves in the scalp). I was in a car wreck several years ago, and it has been a nightmare ever since. The main symptom for me is the continual feeling of pressure in the back of the head, and a bit of tenderness over the greater occipital nerves. I can still program somewhat effectively, but my short term memory is horrible, and quick-thinking is down the tubes. It's fairly similar to a mild/moderate hangover. I would not say that I am dumb or truly have the same experience as someone of low IQ, but the whole experience has instilled a bit of resentment towards the Silicon Valley mindset that every dev must be a quick-thinking, 10x wiz kid. I am not an A-player at this point, but by putting in a few extra hours a week I can keep up with the devs on my team, and I try to make sure my output is somewhat on par. Fortunately, botox has made a tremendous impact (takes pressure off the nerves), and I'm getting surgery soon so fingers crossed I can make a solid recovery.
burpee 13y ago
It's funny, because Lyme is one of those diseases where "it could be anything" to the outsider because there are no external indicators that something is wrong with them. Back when I was younger I got Lyme disease at the age of 13. I got treated for it by some quack without antibiotics and then went on with my life - essentially untreated. Between the ages of 14 and 17 I have barely any memories. There are snippets of events that I can recall in my memory, but in total they must be less than 20 snippets over the course of 3 years of my life. If I try my very best to go back to other moments in there, there is nothing, kind of like after having had a few too many drinks and being unable to remember how you got home, but then having that feeling for about 3 years of your life. Much like stated in the post, your memory is affected by Lyme disease. You actually still have the capacity to think complete thoughts, but after only a few seconds your thoughts are gone. One of the few snippets of memory that I have left, is the sudden strong realisation that I tried my very best to remember what had happened in the last 7 days - and the complete and utter inability to recall even one single event over those 7 days. I wasn't even able to remember what I ate for lunch 3 hours earlier, or what I had been doing for the previous 5 minutes. I remember getting really upset that I felt that that memory was also fading and I kept on repeating it in my head to prevent it from disappearing. It was scary. I am apparently fortunate enough to continue functioning well after Lyme disease, but I can guarantee you that the experience being written in this post is absolutely identical to the experience that I had. It's bizarre, it's scary, but fortunately for Waldo: he won't remember a thing anyway.
kzsee3 13y ago
Why is the first comment always negative? The author of the link wrote an article based on his experience. I find that every first comment on HN is a tear down of the original post. The tone of every top comment seems to want to prove the com mentor's genius over the author.
3327 13y ago
Hey. I Actually agree with your article because I HAD lyme 1 month ago too. And felt the same. You are probably on the 14 day Doxy. After it you start to feel better pretty quickly. I went to a great infectious disease doc (if you are in Seattle). You probably tripped out like me and went reading about it on the internet for hours if not days. 99% of lymeand post lyme disease is BS. No such thing as post lyme disorder. Its highly sensitive to doxy . I caught mine a month after and 2nd day of doxy started feeling better. But man such a strange feeling. Depression was a first for me i don't know if its from the toxins that inhibit certain stuff or psychological but its strange. Anyway get well soon and don't believe the lyme stuff you read I can assure you. You reach 100%. Just don't have unprotected sex as that shit is real depression material !
mumbi 13y ago
I've had depression my entire life and was diagnosed clinically depressed at 21. I don't think you have it, yet. That being said, it sucks you have Lyme's disease. I hope you get better soon.
idaniboy 13y ago
Make sure your physician is evaluating and treating your Lyme. Lyme is relatively uncommon in the Southeast US compared to the Northeast US so physicians here are not as experienced in treating it. I would also seek a second opinion from a neurologist if you have not already. If you feel that you have cognitive impairment now, then the neurologist may feel that a brain MRI is indicated. This may not affect management, but may provide you with prognostic information.
photorized 13y ago
Similar effects can be achieved by not getting enough sleep.
gbadman 13y ago
This sounds like Spock on a binge of introspection.
peterarmstrong 13y ago
I have come to find out what it's like to humblebrag.
karlkatzke 13y ago
I really feel for this guy. I'm a linux sysadmin in a 24/7 data processing/medical environment. Last november, I fell off my bike, without a helmet on. (I was on paved paths on a college campus during a football game; if I had been playing in traffic or moving quickly, I would've been wearing a helmet. However, I was moving at walking pace and SOMEHOW went over my handlebars. I have no memory of the accident.) I received a closed head injury, cervical spine injury, and had bleeding on the brain, and was borderline for concussion. I spent the night in the critical care unit and they wouldn't let me sleep. It was a pretty serious injury and I was on painkillers due to migraines for years. For several months, I tried my hardest to do my job. But I didn't "grok" things. I couldn't code in the languages I'd known since the late 90s. I couldn't learn new things -- learning Ruby, even with the help of codecademy, was epic fail. I'd go through the classes and put any old thing in to make it work (thinking it wouldn't), and get 100% without understanding WHY it worked. I couldn't keep up with technology and wasn't reading HN and the other news sources I normally keep up with. Eight months after the injury, I suddenly understood my first languages again. Another month after that, I could learn new things, and picked up Ruby and Chef inside of a week. The worst part of it is that I didn't know that I was stupid. I thought I wasn't trying hard enough, and I pushed myself into feeling horrible about the whole thing. The entire experience has given me a lot of sympathy for people who say that they can't do something because it doesn't feel understandable to them, even after they've been shown and guided through it.
- karlkatzke 13y ago
  > painkillers due to migraines for years I meant "months". Obviously, not everything's back where it should be. (And this is the truth. After my injury, my brain is not the same tool it used to be. I troubleshoot in the reverse order I used to. I skip items in checklists that I remember reading clearly and damned well know are there. Even though most things came back without much struggle, I'm having to re-learn certain small things that used to be second nature.) Wear your helmets, kids.
normloman 13y ago
Just the premise is smug. If you think you're smart now, and lymes has made you dumb, you really are dumb. We're all dumb. Lymes just made you dumber.
rza 13y ago
He most definitely does not have depression. Saying that depression is simply apathy and 'feeling dumb' spits in the face of those who have to deal with actual depression everyday.
kbenson 13y ago
The closest I've ever come to understanding what it's like to have depression, or any other neurological disorder affecting mental state, was a few years back when I had a particularly bad cold and/or allergies, and decided to take Mucinex DM. By the end of the first day I felt a general malaise. By the end of the second day I was feeling something I've never felt before, or since. Everything, and I mean everything in life seemed without value or purpose. The only thing that kept me functioning and not immobilized as a curled up ball in bed were the expectations of my family and job (which was also for family). Even so, I could tell I wouldn't be able to keep that up much longer. When I come home, my two young daughters would run up and want to talk to me. While I admit, I sometimes lose patience for them when I'm tired, in this case I patiently let them explain what had happened so far that day, but the entire time, without exception, I could only think about how I wanted this to be over so I could sit down and do... what? Nothing seemed worthwhile. No TV, no book, no computer. I realized I might as well go lay down on the bed. My goals and ambitions were also gone. I didn't want to work, I just wanted to be left alone. I lasted another day on Mucinex before I decided this was definitely not healthy, regardless of how much less phlegm I had to deal with, and stopped taking it. I felt normal (if stuffy) within a day or two. I'm not saying this is the same as depression, I really have no basis for knowing. All I know is that if that's what people that are depressed feel like, I feel very, very sorry (and terrified) for them. The idea of the ramifications if that lasted long term are horrendous. If I survived it long term, I'm fairly certain it would be at the cost of ruining my life. Interestingly, a friend of mine said he had a similar experience with Mucinex DM a few months later. I didn't get into the details with him though (although I had already described my experience before). It seemed too personal to ask for more detail, considering my own experience.
Lagged2Death 13y ago
This is like a Harvard student who drove down into the ghetto one time to buy pot. And now he won't shut up about what it was like comin' up in the 'hood.
- knowtheory 13y ago
  That is an entirely inaccurate characterization of Waldo's entire point. Waldo's trying to describe a state of being. You can argue about whether Waldo really knows what long term depression is really like, but that's separate from learning what it feels like to experience a set of symptoms which he has never previously fallen victim to. He's not claiming to be an authority or an expert, or to even claim that this some how makes him special. He's claiming that he understands depression better now, having experienced it.
jessaustin 13y ago
At the very least, TFA has come to find out what it's like to exhibit dumb, pleonastic writing style. "I have found out..." would be more idiomatic and sensible. "I found out..." would be better in most contexts, but tense is due more to authorial taste so I could have ignored that. Actually for a title that entire verb phrase could be omitted: "What it's like to be dumb" or "What being dumb is like". A good editor would whittle that down to "Being dumb", but then the polished title would contradict the claims of the rest of the piece, so perhaps the current title is best.
rbellio 13y ago
Though the article isn't pointedly about ticks and Lyme disease, I want to share some advice on them, as the disease can be truly debilitating and have long term consequences. If you find yourself frequently outside where ticks are prevalent, invest in a permethrin based repellent that can be applied to your clothing. Ensure that you wear pants and long sleeve shirts whenever possible. I've been using a permethrin based clothing spray for years and have not found a single tick on me in that time. I can personally recommend this brand: http://www.sawyer.com/permFAQ.html http://www.sawyer.com/permFAQ.html
yaddayadda 13y ago
There was a course in my undergraduate college that required each student be 'handicap' for a week (e.g., blind, wheelchair-bound) for much the same reason. I didn't take the course but everyone on campus experienced it to some degree though peers. In much the same way, I lost the use of my dominant arm for several months during graduate school. I always had respect for those with lifelong physical disabilities, but the insight I gained during that period resulted in even more respect. During that period I had one really supportive professor. But, I also had a second professor that I wanted to do much violence to - simply so that he might gain much needed insight. Since I graduated, the second professor has tried to get me to collaborate with him and I refuse to primarily because of his lack of basic respect for others' abilities (both disabilities and capabilities that exceed his own understanding).

224 points by luigi 13y ago

"Depression, at least as I’m experiencing it, is the absence of emotion, rather than negative emotion. I don’t mind it, not yet, but maybe depression is what keeps me from minding depression." More likely, what you experienced was anhedonia, a symptom of certain types of depression. Anhedonia is technically defined as the inability to experience pleasure from once-enjoyable activities, but those I know who've suffered from it have often described it in terms very similar to yours. They say things like "I just didn't care about anything," or "it was like I was bored of being bored, but too bored to do anything about it." To simplify depression -- a neurologically and idiosyncratically complex phenomenon -- as the "absence of emotion" is to mischaracterize the affliction. There are other shades of depression in which emotion is, if anything, severely heightened and labile. Pure, raw, unfiltered anguish. The absolute lack of hope. Like the shit they talk about in the Harry Potter books, when the dementors suck out your soul (incidentally, Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling battled with severe depression, and she modeled said dementors off of the suffering she went through).

skunkworks 13y ago
A salient point re: the existence of different types of depression. Some cause a physical slowness (can't get out of bed), some cause anhedonia, some are the dementor type, etc.
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  Some depressive patients experience all of these symptoms and a lot worse.
- girvo 13y ago
  I personally cannot get out of bed and face the world, I am suicidal at nearly all points of the day (but in a curious way; it's more I picture myself killing myself, but not in a "MUST DO THIS NOW" way. Its very odd and disconcerting). I can still experience emotions (all of them), but they are heavily skewed to the negative. I ignore the future, and focus on the past and present. It's a shit disease.
  - mumbi 13y ago
    I feel for you.
  - salemh 13y ago
    I've found this comic very helpful to understand/identify with some of the emotions, swings and frustration with depression (and absolute stagnation). http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...
  - salemh 13y ago
    I've found this comic very helpful to understand/identify with some of the emotions, swings and frustration with depression (and absolute stagnation). http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par...
deleted 13y ago
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danbmil99 13y ago

Back in the day, we did this with drugs.

deleted 13y ago

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derefr 13y ago

Grouping all the described symtoms under "depression" (and "stupidity") is a non-helpful way to think about Lyme disease, which messes up all sorts of neurotransmitters. You won't get very far by just comparing your experience to that of a depressed person; variously, the symptoms of Lyme disease can mimic clinical depression (serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), or ADHD (dopamine imbalance), generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue (acetylcholine imbalance), and so on. This is besides the effects that the swelling of brain tissue has on cognitive function, e.g. memory. And I wouldn't equate any of that with what it's like to have a low IQ (what is traditionally thought of as "stupidity.") IQ is a measure, basically, of how little evidence your mind needs to recognize a pattern--thus, low-IQ people being thought of as "dense," and thus sufficiently-high IQ being able to do things like deducing all of physics from a few static pictures[1]. Being dumb doesn't feel like having a bad memory, or thinking slower, or not being able to multitask. It feels like looking at a square peg and a grid of shape-holes, and not (quickly) realizing that "shape" is a relevant property that the holes differ by, such that you should select a hole based on the shape of the peg. It should feel genuinely alienating to try to picture yourself "dumber" than you are--like that you, which you would be, is hard for you to empathize with; like they'd solve problems in entirely different ways, out of necessity for not recognizing patterns as easily. And then you can reflect that intuition to understand what it would be like to be more intelligent than you are: someone who would also solve problems in different ways, for seeing their structure more easily; and someone who would have a hard time empathizing with the decisions a version of themselves, reduced to only your intelligence, would make. --- [1] http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/

marincounty 13y ago
I agree with your post, except this part, "mimic clinical depression (serotonin/norepinephrine imbalance), or ADHD (dopamine imbalance), generalized anxiety (GABA imbalance), seasonal/chronic fatigue (acetylcholine imbalance), and so on. " They really don't know what causes anxiety, or clinical depression. The are having a horrid time finding the true cause of these ailments. If anyone is seeing a MD who claims to know what causes depression and anxiety see someone else. It gotten so disappointing in the research community; very few companies are actively even looking for the root cause to these horrid diseases. So many people took these tri, and hetrocyclic drugs for depression, and if they worked--it was most likely placebo. Yes--panic attacks, and generalized anxiety respond to benzodiazepines most of the time, but hey are addictive, and no researcher who is smart would Not claim to know how they work. I wish you well. I truly believe the best medicine is knowing you are going to get better. The placebo effect is sometimes stronger than any antibiotic. I sometimes believe the placebo effect is the only verifiable existence of God? When I am sick, I do a little research on the Internet, but have found it's better to just believe the medicine will work. Oh yea, I try to chose my doctors well--Board Certified who actually tried to keep current after years of practice.

gregschlom 13y ago

Related and somewhat similar stories from Quora users: http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-stupid http://www.quora.com/Intelligence/What-does-it-feel-like-to-...

thinkcomp 13y ago

For those who don't know, Waldo Jaquith is something of a national treasure, as the only person in the country who has effectively managed to tackle the problem of standardizing state statutes in an open manner, as they should be. (I managed to get a few on PlainSite, but Waldo's platform has tackled many more by distributing the problem.) Check out The State Decoded at: http://www.statedecoded.com http://www.statedecoded.com We should all hope that Waldo feels better soon. He is anything but stupid.

hellyeasa 13y ago

Good god. What is this pretentious bullshit? This tone of this post was so incredibly ridiculous I had to create an account to ask why it was posted here or taken seriously. This self proclaimed smart person, with heavy emphasis on the self proclaimed part (check out the incredibly smug About page) apparently needs Lyme disease to feel the plight of the oh so pitiful stupid people. News flash, half the population is dumber than average, stop acting like Lyme disease is a cute self reflection on intelligence. I am not attacking your smartness, and please get well soon, but don't be a pretentious asshole. God. South Park's "Smug Alert!" episode perfectly encapsulates the culture of this place sometimes. Over and out.

fragsworth 13y ago
You aren't alone, I felt very much the same about this post. It's pretty cringe-worthy...
maxmcd 13y ago
For what it's worth, I enjoyed the about page. Didn't seem smug to me at all.
pgsandstrom 13y ago
Cut him some slack, he did write it while having Lyme disease...
- smalltalk 13y ago
  Does having Lyme disease make one an insufferable pretentiously pompous ass?
eshvk 13y ago
> News flash, half the population is dumber than average Probably not true. What if the mean is skewed by outliers like incredibly smart people or incredibly dumb people; we could very well be living in the world where most of the people are stupid and the average is what it is because of a very few incredibly smart people. Humorous tangent apart; I can't even imagine thinking like this so-called smart person. If I feel the problem is too easy, I am always trying to figure out harder problems to solve. So much so that I am comfortable with the feeling of being stupid and being befuddled. It merely means I am pushing myself to the edge.

jacquesm 13y ago

Lyme is pretty heavy. Three of my family members have it in various stages, one of them really serious. They live in rural Poland where in the forests it is more or less a given that you will contract Lyme at some point in your life. For foresters it is a better-than-even chance that they contract the disease by the time they are 30 even if they are careful, all it takes is one tick that you didn't spot and you get bitten by ticks all the time there. Lyme disease does not 'make you stupid', but it can make you very ill. One of the possible symptoms is depression, memory loss is another so the symptoms the author describes are very much in the realm of the possible. If you're ever bitten by a tick and you see a bulls-eye pattern around the bite get yourself to a doctor and make sure you are prescribed anti-biotics right away, do not wait (for instance until your holiday is over). I can't emphasize this enough. I don't like anti-biotics for many reasons when they are used without a good reason but Lyme disease is no picnic and the earlier you deal with it the better your chances of complete recovery. Wait too long and you're in for a world of trouble, in case you think I'm exaggerating please read the wikipedia page on Lyme disease or have a chat with my brother in law whose life is pretty much determined by Lyme in a very advanced stage.

kiisupai 13y ago
Good advice. I was bitten by a tick three summers ago and received my antibiotics a little too late. As a result I am still suffering from lingering after effects, the most prominent of which would be persistent "brain fog" and a general feeling of mental fatigue. And I am one of the lucky ones as it could've ended a lot worse than that.
tszyn 13y ago
A friend of mine recently got a rash (I don't think it was a classic bullseye pattern) and some fatigue. She didn't notice a tick. Went to a doctor, suggested that it might be Lyme disease -- doctor told her if she'd had a tick, she would have noticed it, so it must be allergy. A month later she was in the hospital with a confirmed Lyme diagnosis. If I get an unexplained rash with flu-like symptoms, even if I don't see a tick, I'm taking antibiotics just in case. Better safe than sorry.
- 13y ago

quark83 13y ago

I created a throwaway account so it's not associated with my normal handle on here. This post brings up something I've been wondering about, and it's something that's really been bothering me the last few years. I feel like I've become significantly less intelligent over time, and I can't figure out if that's really the case, or if it's a different issue that simply makes me feel less intelligent. When I was in high school, everything I learned was simple -- everything was a piece of cake. I would program my TI calculator (with a list of assembly opcodes next to me) at the back of the class and basically ignore the lesson and then get the highest grade on every test. Same in chemistry. Every standardized test I took (SAT, ACT, etc.) gave results in the 99th percentile. Same with the AMC and AIME. I graduated 1/200 in my class. I had all kinds of interesting programming projects in my free time from age 12 to 18. Then I went to college: a STEM school. The first semester went fine; I got all A's. The second semester, I got my first B ever. The third semester, more B's. Eventually a C. My final GPA ended up being 3.5, significantly lower than anything I had been used to. I couldn't stay awake during lessons in class. I was sleepy all the time despite getting good sleep (8-9 hours) every night. I never skipped class, but I may as well have considering how sleepy and groggy as I was. This had never been an issue in high school. I don't ever remember getting sleepy in class then, even if the lecture was boring. Suddenly, new subjects became incomprehensible. The ease at which I previously absorbed new material was gone. Nothing "clicked" anymore. I'm in graduate school now and still nothing "clicks". I attend department seminars where visiting professors present their research, and it may as well be alien gibberish. I feel like I'm just faking my way through grad school at this point. I can still manage A's and B's in classes without ever understanding the content only because of the way the grading system's designed. Luckily, I seemed to have retained my programming capabilities. I can't figure out what caused this. One option is physical: perhaps something chemically changed within my brain. Virus, physical trauma, getting older? No idea really. The other option is environmental. In high school I only had dial-up internet access, so anything I wanted to download, I had to really want. It was an all-day ordeal to get a 3 MB file. It was almost impossible to goof off online. Nowadays I get on the internet and just get distracted. I can't get into side-projects like I used to be able to. I still have the strong desire that I used to, but not the motivation. I don't know where it went; why would my personality just change for the worse like that? I almost wonder if skimming huge amounts of information online has somehow re-trained my brain to not absorb knowledge anymore. Has this happened to anyone else? Have you figured out a way to reverse the process? I would love more than anything to have the incredible clarity with which I used to understand new subjects rather than this fuzzy, muddy feeling with everything I try to learn.

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

Being from Brazil, I didn't even knew such illness existed. Wikipedia says it's endemic to US, Europe and south of Argentina. The symptoms sound pretty bad if untreated. Good to know more about it to pay attention while traveling, these endemic diseases are often hard to diagnose.

javert 13y ago

Can someone please tell me if it's possible to get permanently sick from Lyme disease? (e.g. assume the initial systems are just a flu, get past those, and never realize you have other problems.) Because if so, I might have it. But that's impossible, right? EDIT: Yes, I should ask a doctor, but given the medical situation where I live, it is quite hard to get good advice.

abecedarius 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Chronic_Lyme_disease_.28CLD.29_and_post-Lyme_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Chronic_Lyme_disea... may be relevant. Good luck.
hmsimha 13y ago
If you didn't treat it, then from what I understand, the spirochetes are still in your blood and brain. However, the official response of the medical community is 'no' because they don't have enough evidence to make that claim (from what I understand there is a lot of pressure from insurance companies to not make this a diagnosis that would result in them potentially having to cover years of treatment)

k7gl32 13y ago

Do other people feel their cognitive abilities diminishing as they age? I've been diagnosed with major depressive disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, ADHD-Inattentive type, and probably other things that I can't remember right now. I think most of these diagnoses (panic disorder being the only viscerally clear one) are to explain the disparity between my IQ scores throughout the years and my lack of performance in school and life in general. Which, by the way, I know is the dead-horse of tropes for internet comments... As a result of these diagnoses I've taken several classes of medications and several instances within each class. SSRI/(S)NRIs: Prozac, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, Strattera, probably others Stimulants: Adderall (XR), Ritalin Benzodiazepines: Klonopin, Xanax, Ativan Weird hypnotic sleep drugs: Ambien, Lunesta I feel like there is a very complex matrix of factors that have contributed to the way I am now (I used to be a pretty normal, social, outgoing, intelligent, excited kid who got bad grades, now I'm kind of a weird dude) and I can't determine the cause. If the cause is depression, I'd like to take the right medication to help with that. If the cause is medication, I'd like to stop taking medication. If this 'slowing down' feeling is something other people my age (25) feel, then maybe I don't need to make a big deal about it. The way the author described his neurotypical self reminds me of who I was 13 years ago before that first diagnosis and that first prescription. I want to feel that clarity again. Right now I feel like I'm brute-forcing through life. And it's working. But I feel about 1/10th the joy/passion I had when I was a kid. Which is a symptom of depression. So I take drugs. That make me feel slow, and prevent me from being deeply depressed. Which might not even happen. I am stuck in a strange loop, but slowly mining my way out.

pnathan 13y ago
I believe my cognitive ability has generally remained constant since 15 or so (I'm going on 30 now). However, my experiences and knowledge have networked together such that I am very confident I could drub 15-year-old me at any given intellectual task.
Scienz 13y ago
At 29 I've also become somewhat paranoid about age-related cognitive decline. From what little I've looked into it, to the extent you go by the fluid and crystallized intelligence dichotomy, fluid tends to peak at around 25 and crystallized peaks somewhere in the 35-55 range (I've heard multiple numbers from different sources), with major decline beginning around 65. Brain mass also peaks around 25 and loses around 2 grams per year thereafter. The intelligence loss seems to be exponential with age - you'll drop a lot faster between 60 and 70 than you will between 30 and 40. The different peaks for fluid versus crystallized probably affect life outcomes differently depending on lifestyle and profession, e.g. the saying I used to hear from my physics professors that "If you haven't done anything by 30, you never will," or the Primer quote, "What they do with engineers when they turn 40? They take them out back and shoot 'em." On the other hand fields requiring vast recall of domain knowledge like law or medicine probably favor the older crowd that have had decades more time to accumulate, even if they lack the high-level abstract problem solving stuff required more in e.g. physics or math. Some relevant links on all that: http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cognitive-aging11.png http://www.highiqpro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/cognitiv... http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/fluid-and-crystalized-intelligence3.png http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/f... http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd832e64253819688a4eaaaf25eac62b http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd832e64253819688a4eaaa... There's also work on reversing cognitive decline with stem cell therapies: http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html http://www.impactaging.com/papers/v4/n3/full/100446.html

joshcorbin 13y ago

I'm really still trying to come to terms with the opener: "It’s not like I deserve any credit for being smart. I didn’t do anything to make that happen. I’m also tall, but nobody compliments me on that. (Good job being tall!) Intelligence is an immutable characteristic that I have at times capitalized on and at other times let go to waste." To my layman understanding of psychology, and especially what intelligence research has been uncovering over the last few decades, the exact opposite is the case: - intelligence is far from an immutable trait - we do a lot to influence our own intelligence (perhaps far more than we realize, since much of what we do is due to implicit socialization/upbringing) If you're going to use an analogy to a physical characteristic, than I'd suggest using weight not height: yes there are relevant genetic traits, but they're only a fraction of the story.

deleted 13y ago
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konstantintin 13y ago
once you are a fully developed adult, intelligence is normally very stable. an analogy with weight simply doesn't work: anybody can increase their weight simply by eating more, but we don't know of any reliable methods of massively increasing or reducing intellignece.

PeterisP 13y ago

If you state that you feel dumb(er), can this be measured quantitatively in any way? Can you re-take some tests where you know previous results to see if there are significant differences? The described experience makes it hard to distinguish between reduced intelligence as such, versus disbalances in motivational/emotional systems that affect what you[r brain] choose to do, instead of the ability of what you can do. Both can be limiting, but in very different ways.

ck2 13y ago

I really want to make a sarcastic comment about how half of American adults must have this disease but it sounds kinda serious so not going to make fun of it.

jacquesm 13y ago
> it sounds kinda serious It is. > not going to make fun of it. Thank you for that. Lyme is a very easy to contract disease depending on where you live and the progressive symptoms are devastating.
- ck2 13y ago
  Best wishes to you. At least it can be cured? I found this helpful for ignorant folks like me http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/ http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/faq/
  - jacquesm 13y ago
    > Best wishes to you. Thank you, fortunately I don't have it myself but three of my family members do. > At least it can be cured? If you catch it early enough you can get complete recovery. If you catch it a little later you'll have symptoms lasting for months or years, if it starts to progress you might be able to arrest it at some level or slow the progression but it will always keep trying to get worse. And once you reach any of the advanced stages it can not be cured, you're stuck with it for life.

david927 13y ago

Intelligence is an immutable characteristic I get so tired of seeing this. We can't even really define intelligence but I'm guessing this is based on a previous assumption that IQ was static, which we now know it not to be. We need to remember, also, that IQ is not a measure of intelligence.

fhd2 13y ago
The author is obviously using colloquial definitions of "intelligence" and "stupidity", but those are even more flawed than the scientific definition attempts. Is a lack of ambition really caused by low intelligence? Can we really put intelligence on a linear scale like that? Makes the whole piece pretty condescending.
rlanday 13y ago
Citation needed on both points. Most evidence points to IQ scores being valid measures of intelligence, in that they have some predictive power, especially for average life outcomes for groups of people, and are mostly stable throughout life. For example, look up the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth, which examines life outcomes based on SAT scores at age 12.
- david927 13y ago
  valid measure ... some predictive power I'm not sure if those two belong in the same sentence. If we were to come up with a point system that measured beauty in women, for example, you could measure pronouncement of cheekbones and thickness of lips, etc. While Angelina Jolie would score well, so would Jocelyn Wildenstein, and Emma Watson would score poorly. Such a system might have "some predictive power" for large population sizes, but could never measure "beauty". Intelligence is qualitative, like beauty, not quantitative, and therefore could never be expressed individually as a number. We would do well to bear that in mind.

BetaCygni 13y ago

It's still well written. I'm not sure how fast the author could churn out good articles when he was feeling good but he is definitely not that stupid now.

nathell 13y ago

If there is something capable of making me drop everything and read an article right at this very instant, then that something is using a quote from "Flowers for Algernon" as the title. Thanks to Waldo for sharing his being Charlie Gordon. I hope he recovers.

pluti34 13y ago

I've had a similar experience due to coming down with a condition called occipital neuralgia (essentially compressed and/or damaged nerves in the scalp). I was in a car wreck several years ago, and it has been a nightmare ever since. The main symptom for me is the continual feeling of pressure in the back of the head, and a bit of tenderness over the greater occipital nerves. I can still program somewhat effectively, but my short term memory is horrible, and quick-thinking is down the tubes. It's fairly similar to a mild/moderate hangover. I would not say that I am dumb or truly have the same experience as someone of low IQ, but the whole experience has instilled a bit of resentment towards the Silicon Valley mindset that every dev must be a quick-thinking, 10x wiz kid. I am not an A-player at this point, but by putting in a few extra hours a week I can keep up with the devs on my team, and I try to make sure my output is somewhat on par. Fortunately, botox has made a tremendous impact (takes pressure off the nerves), and I'm getting surgery soon so fingers crossed I can make a solid recovery.

burpee 13y ago

It's funny, because Lyme is one of those diseases where "it could be anything" to the outsider because there are no external indicators that something is wrong with them. Back when I was younger I got Lyme disease at the age of 13. I got treated for it by some quack without antibiotics and then went on with my life - essentially untreated. Between the ages of 14 and 17 I have barely any memories. There are snippets of events that I can recall in my memory, but in total they must be less than 20 snippets over the course of 3 years of my life. If I try my very best to go back to other moments in there, there is nothing, kind of like after having had a few too many drinks and being unable to remember how you got home, but then having that feeling for about 3 years of your life. Much like stated in the post, your memory is affected by Lyme disease. You actually still have the capacity to think complete thoughts, but after only a few seconds your thoughts are gone. One of the few snippets of memory that I have left, is the sudden strong realisation that I tried my very best to remember what had happened in the last 7 days - and the complete and utter inability to recall even one single event over those 7 days. I wasn't even able to remember what I ate for lunch 3 hours earlier, or what I had been doing for the previous 5 minutes. I remember getting really upset that I felt that that memory was also fading and I kept on repeating it in my head to prevent it from disappearing. It was scary. I am apparently fortunate enough to continue functioning well after Lyme disease, but I can guarantee you that the experience being written in this post is absolutely identical to the experience that I had. It's bizarre, it's scary, but fortunately for Waldo: he won't remember a thing anyway.

kzsee3 13y ago

Why is the first comment always negative? The author of the link wrote an article based on his experience. I find that every first comment on HN is a tear down of the original post. The tone of every top comment seems to want to prove the com mentor's genius over the author.

3327 13y ago

Hey. I Actually agree with your article because I HAD lyme 1 month ago too. And felt the same. You are probably on the 14 day Doxy. After it you start to feel better pretty quickly. I went to a great infectious disease doc (if you are in Seattle). You probably tripped out like me and went reading about it on the internet for hours if not days. 99% of lymeand post lyme disease is BS. No such thing as post lyme disorder. Its highly sensitive to doxy . I caught mine a month after and 2nd day of doxy started feeling better. But man such a strange feeling. Depression was a first for me i don't know if its from the toxins that inhibit certain stuff or psychological but its strange. Anyway get well soon and don't believe the lyme stuff you read I can assure you. You reach 100%. Just don't have unprotected sex as that shit is real depression material !

mumbi 13y ago

I've had depression my entire life and was diagnosed clinically depressed at 21. I don't think you have it, yet. That being said, it sucks you have Lyme's disease. I hope you get better soon.

idaniboy 13y ago

Make sure your physician is evaluating and treating your Lyme. Lyme is relatively uncommon in the Southeast US compared to the Northeast US so physicians here are not as experienced in treating it. I would also seek a second opinion from a neurologist if you have not already. If you feel that you have cognitive impairment now, then the neurologist may feel that a brain MRI is indicated. This may not affect management, but may provide you with prognostic information.

photorized 13y ago

Similar effects can be achieved by not getting enough sleep.

gbadman 13y ago

This sounds like Spock on a binge of introspection.

peterarmstrong 13y ago

I have come to find out what it's like to humblebrag.

karlkatzke 13y ago

I really feel for this guy. I'm a linux sysadmin in a 24/7 data processing/medical environment. Last november, I fell off my bike, without a helmet on. (I was on paved paths on a college campus during a football game; if I had been playing in traffic or moving quickly, I would've been wearing a helmet. However, I was moving at walking pace and SOMEHOW went over my handlebars. I have no memory of the accident.) I received a closed head injury, cervical spine injury, and had bleeding on the brain, and was borderline for concussion. I spent the night in the critical care unit and they wouldn't let me sleep. It was a pretty serious injury and I was on painkillers due to migraines for years. For several months, I tried my hardest to do my job. But I didn't "grok" things. I couldn't code in the languages I'd known since the late 90s. I couldn't learn new things -- learning Ruby, even with the help of codecademy, was epic fail. I'd go through the classes and put any old thing in to make it work (thinking it wouldn't), and get 100% without understanding WHY it worked. I couldn't keep up with technology and wasn't reading HN and the other news sources I normally keep up with. Eight months after the injury, I suddenly understood my first languages again. Another month after that, I could learn new things, and picked up Ruby and Chef inside of a week. The worst part of it is that I didn't know that I was stupid. I thought I wasn't trying hard enough, and I pushed myself into feeling horrible about the whole thing. The entire experience has given me a lot of sympathy for people who say that they can't do something because it doesn't feel understandable to them, even after they've been shown and guided through it.

karlkatzke 13y ago
> painkillers due to migraines for years I meant "months". Obviously, not everything's back where it should be. (And this is the truth. After my injury, my brain is not the same tool it used to be. I troubleshoot in the reverse order I used to. I skip items in checklists that I remember reading clearly and damned well know are there. Even though most things came back without much struggle, I'm having to re-learn certain small things that used to be second nature.) Wear your helmets, kids.

normloman 13y ago

Just the premise is smug. If you think you're smart now, and lymes has made you dumb, you really are dumb. We're all dumb. Lymes just made you dumber.

rza 13y ago

He most definitely does not have depression. Saying that depression is simply apathy and 'feeling dumb' spits in the face of those who have to deal with actual depression everyday.

kbenson 13y ago

The closest I've ever come to understanding what it's like to have depression, or any other neurological disorder affecting mental state, was a few years back when I had a particularly bad cold and/or allergies, and decided to take Mucinex DM. By the end of the first day I felt a general malaise. By the end of the second day I was feeling something I've never felt before, or since. Everything, and I mean everything in life seemed without value or purpose. The only thing that kept me functioning and not immobilized as a curled up ball in bed were the expectations of my family and job (which was also for family). Even so, I could tell I wouldn't be able to keep that up much longer. When I come home, my two young daughters would run up and want to talk to me. While I admit, I sometimes lose patience for them when I'm tired, in this case I patiently let them explain what had happened so far that day, but the entire time, without exception, I could only think about how I wanted this to be over so I could sit down and do... what? Nothing seemed worthwhile. No TV, no book, no computer. I realized I might as well go lay down on the bed. My goals and ambitions were also gone. I didn't want to work, I just wanted to be left alone. I lasted another day on Mucinex before I decided this was definitely not healthy, regardless of how much less phlegm I had to deal with, and stopped taking it. I felt normal (if stuffy) within a day or two. I'm not saying this is the same as depression, I really have no basis for knowing. All I know is that if that's what people that are depressed feel like, I feel very, very sorry (and terrified) for them. The idea of the ramifications if that lasted long term are horrendous. If I survived it long term, I'm fairly certain it would be at the cost of ruining my life. Interestingly, a friend of mine said he had a similar experience with Mucinex DM a few months later. I didn't get into the details with him though (although I had already described my experience before). It seemed too personal to ask for more detail, considering my own experience.

Lagged2Death 13y ago

This is like a Harvard student who drove down into the ghetto one time to buy pot. And now he won't shut up about what it was like comin' up in the 'hood.

knowtheory 13y ago
That is an entirely inaccurate characterization of Waldo's entire point. Waldo's trying to describe a state of being. You can argue about whether Waldo really knows what long term depression is really like, but that's separate from learning what it feels like to experience a set of symptoms which he has never previously fallen victim to. He's not claiming to be an authority or an expert, or to even claim that this some how makes him special. He's claiming that he understands depression better now, having experienced it.

jessaustin 13y ago

At the very least, TFA has come to find out what it's like to exhibit dumb, pleonastic writing style. "I have found out..." would be more idiomatic and sensible. "I found out..." would be better in most contexts, but tense is due more to authorial taste so I could have ignored that. Actually for a title that entire verb phrase could be omitted: "What it's like to be dumb" or "What being dumb is like". A good editor would whittle that down to "Being dumb", but then the polished title would contradict the claims of the rest of the piece, so perhaps the current title is best.

rbellio 13y ago

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yaddayadda 13y ago

There was a course in my undergraduate college that required each student be 'handicap' for a week (e.g., blind, wheelchair-bound) for much the same reason. I didn't take the course but everyone on campus experienced it to some degree though peers. In much the same way, I lost the use of my dominant arm for several months during graduate school. I always had respect for those with lifelong physical disabilities, but the insight I gained during that period resulted in even more respect. During that period I had one really supportive professor. But, I also had a second professor that I wanted to do much violence to - simply so that he might gain much needed insight. Since I graduated, the second professor has tried to get me to collaborate with him and I refuse to primarily because of his lack of basic respect for others' abilities (both disabilities and capabilities that exceed his own understanding).