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Your disbelief stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of what you're talking about. You imagine that every religion is basically fundamentalist Prote

Your disbelief stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of what you're talking about. You imagine that every religion is basically fundamentalist Protestantism. Your loss, I suppose.

loup-vaillant 13y ago
Actually, I was raised in a lukewarm catholic environment, in France. There was no "coming out" as an atheist for me, it was quite… ordinary. My rejection of relativism spurred more heated discussions that my rejection of God, actually. Anyway, every catholic I met believe in God and in the Immaculate Conception. And I think they also believed it was an important, if not fundamental, part of being catholic. Not to mention all the rituals that mention God and Jesus all over the place. Which is why I cannot fathom a religion that does not at least strongly encourages its members to believe in something supernatural. Seriously, you're tempting me to send a e-mail to Robert Aummann¹, and ask him about that. Or read Eliezer Yudkowsky about his childhood. Or just read the wikipedia². Let's see… Oh the chief reason why supernatural belief isn't required is because there's no recognized central authority… I bet however that most Rabbi strongly encourage a belief in something supernatural. If not directly, at least through the rituals they organize. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith
- fusiongyro 13y ago
  It matters what you believe in Christianity because it is a religion of faith and belief. If you no longer believe in God, you're not a Christian, you're an impostor. But Jewishness is decided by whether you were born Jewish or converted to Judaism. If either of those is true, you are a Jew, regardless of what you believe. None of the laws are predicated on believing in God (the one I mentioned before from the ten commandments precludes believing in other deities, but apparently permits atheism). What makes someone a "bad Jew" is failing to practice Judaism. But there's no incentive to conduct a witchhunt over it, so there's no incentive for rhetoric about the importance of belief. I belong to a Conservative synagogue and I have never heard a sermon about the importance of believing in God. It isn't important. Ethical behavior is, and that is the content of our sermons. It may be difficult to see a point to practicing if you don't believe in God, but, again, I know people who find value in the symbolism and the ritual and the religion's capacity to shape ethical behavior despite not believing in a supernatural being or origin. The entire Reconstructionist movement teaches that Judaism and the Bible were created by mankind. It may be a small movement, but it is real thing, and I know Conservative Jews who are atheists but still get value out of the practice. I'm sure you will be able to find a marginal rabbi (probably "Orthodox", a self-applied label by a movement younger than the Reform) who will activate your confirmation bias. But I assure you, things are different outside your experience.

Your disbelief stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of what you're talking about. You imagine that every religion is basically fundamentalist Protestantism. Your loss, I suppose.

loup-vaillant 13y ago

Actually, I was raised in a lukewarm catholic environment, in France. There was no "coming out" as an atheist for me, it was quite… ordinary. My rejection of relativism spurred more heated discussions that my rejection of God, actually. Anyway, every catholic I met believe in God and in the Immaculate Conception. And I think they also believed it was an important, if not fundamental, part of being catholic. Not to mention all the rituals that mention God and Jesus all over the place. Which is why I cannot fathom a religion that does not at least strongly encourages its members to believe in something supernatural. Seriously, you're tempting me to send a e-mail to Robert Aummann¹, and ask him about that. Or read Eliezer Yudkowsky about his childhood. Or just read the wikipedia². Let's see… Oh the chief reason why supernatural belief isn't required is because there's no recognized central authority… I bet however that most Rabbi strongly encourage a belief in something supernatural. If not directly, at least through the rituals they organize. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith

fusiongyro 13y ago
It matters what you believe in Christianity because it is a religion of faith and belief. If you no longer believe in God, you're not a Christian, you're an impostor. But Jewishness is decided by whether you were born Jewish or converted to Judaism. If either of those is true, you are a Jew, regardless of what you believe. None of the laws are predicated on believing in God (the one I mentioned before from the ten commandments precludes believing in other deities, but apparently permits atheism). What makes someone a "bad Jew" is failing to practice Judaism. But there's no incentive to conduct a witchhunt over it, so there's no incentive for rhetoric about the importance of belief. I belong to a Conservative synagogue and I have never heard a sermon about the importance of believing in God. It isn't important. Ethical behavior is, and that is the content of our sermons. It may be difficult to see a point to practicing if you don't believe in God, but, again, I know people who find value in the symbolism and the ritual and the religion's capacity to shape ethical behavior despite not believing in a supernatural being or origin. The entire Reconstructionist movement teaches that Judaism and the Bible were created by mankind. It may be a small movement, but it is real thing, and I know Conservative Jews who are atheists but still get value out of the practice. I'm sure you will be able to find a marginal rabbi (probably "Orthodox", a self-applied label by a movement younger than the Reform) who will activate your confirmation bias. But I assure you, things are different outside your experience.