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Unfortunately you have to know a bit of Russian to pick up on this, but if you watch/read Russian media for a while it becomes obvious how this paragraph is a c

Unfortunately you have to know a bit of Russian to pick up on this, but if you watch/read Russian media for a while it becomes obvious how this paragraph is a comical bit of hypocrisy. The Russians in general and Putin in particular talk all the time about how the Russian soul is exceptional, how Russia is somehow different from western democracies and has its own unique (and largely mystical) economic and political path, how you can't understand it with intellect and can only believe in it (which is a classic bit of Russian poetry internalized by pretty much everyone), and how the Russians are somehow more "spiritual" than everyone else. Putin has the knack for coming off as fairly reasonable to the western audience, but to someone who was born and raised in the former Soviet Union this reads like something from the Onion. EDIT: here is a specific example to illustrate my point. In a recent interview, here is how Putin characterized the difference between the American and Russian "soul". He brought up a quote by the main heroine from Gone with the Wind where she said "I can't imagine what it would be like to be hungry all the time". Putin then pointed out that something like this is a primary concern of an American soul (implying base concerns for physical comforts), while this wouldn't be a concern for the Russian soul, which allegedly is concerned with much more important spiritual matters. This isn't an isolated example -- this happens all the time. Going on NYT and criticizing american exceptionalism seems incredibly hypocritical to me. EDIT2: I also feel compelled to point out either the sleaziness or sloppy thinking (you decide which one) of taking a single character from a work of fiction and extrapolating it to a conclusion about an entire people (of course in service of "proving" that Americans are far baser people than the Russians).

Demiurge 13y ago
>you can't understand it with intellect and can only believe in it (which is a classic bit of Russian poetry internalized by pretty much everyone) It's not poetry, it's a self critical fable. It's so obvious too, "you can't understand it" because it's not logical. This is in line with everyone being proud of how Russian roads are the worst in the world. This particular attitude of being exceptional, regardless if it's exceptionally corrupt or drunk, is perpendicular to the concept of exceptionalism by the virtue of being chosen by God as special people. The concept of American self-righteousness does not exist in Russia the way it does in US. >Putin has the knack for coming off as fairly reasonable to the western audience, but to someone who was born and raised in the former Soviet Union this reads like something from the Onion. I'm curious, were you born and raised in the former Soviet Union?
- coffeemug 13y ago
  I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I get what you're saying. But you can't seriously say that Russian exceptionalism isn't used in service of rationalizing the belief that the Russians are better people than the rest of the world. Consider the popularity of Zadornov's humor -- the gist of almost every joke is that foreigners are dumber than the Russians. Also this might be nitpicking, but Americans don't typically believe that they were chosen by god as special people. They typically believe that they're special people because they themselves made it happen (which IMO is largely true).
  - Demiurge 13y ago
    Of course nationalism exists and is used in Russia. This is true for every country, but I honestly think, having experience with English, American and Spanish cultures, through their media and people as friends, that Russian exceptionism is the most self-denigrating I have ever experienced. On and on people go on how everything is better everywhere else, how everything is shit here in Russia and needs to be copied from some Western example. Jon Stewart, arguably a much better and more intelligent comedian than Zadornov, makes much more ignorant jokes (vodka/bears/Putin) about Russia than Zadornov, whos jokes in part play on the fact that Westerners simply don't have to be smart about some things because they don't deal with 3rd world problems. A lot of people who like Zadornov know this and are crying through tears.
    - varjag 13y ago
      > On and on people go on how everything is better everywhere else, how everything is shit here in Russia and needs to be copied from some Western example. It's a bit complicated. Both Russian disgust towards ethnitities they consider inferior, and their bloated exceptionalism are manifestations of massive national inferiority complex that nearly everyone there suffers from.
  - cdi 13y ago
    Americans too have Zadornov type comedians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_the_Cable_Guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_the_Cable_Guy for example. >but Americans don't typically believe that they were chosen by god as special people. very funny. That's what American Exceptionalism is pretty much about if you listen to the right of the political spectrum.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
In a recent interview, here is how Putin characterized the difference between the American and Russian "soul". He brought up a quote by the main heroine from Gone with the Wind where she said "I can't imagine what it would be like to be hungry all the time". Putin then pointed out that something like this is a primary concern of an American soul (implying base concerns for physical comforts), while this wouldn't be a concern for the Russian soul, which allegedly is concerned with much more important spiritual matters. It makes perfect sense. A Russian doesn't have to imagine what it's like to go hungry, he just knows from experience.
robbiep 13y ago
Thanks for that insightful comment. I like probably 99% of members of the anglosphere had no idea of a Russian mythology/identity although in retrospect it should be obvious that there is one, the same as every country. when i read those lines i was just enjoying the chiding he gives the american national psyche. i delighted in the kong of putin with one hand drawing obama closer and with the other preparing to slap him for being so proud.

Demiurge 13y ago

>you can't understand it with intellect and can only believe in it (which is a classic bit of Russian poetry internalized by pretty much everyone) It's not poetry, it's a self critical fable. It's so obvious too, "you can't understand it" because it's not logical. This is in line with everyone being proud of how Russian roads are the worst in the world. This particular attitude of being exceptional, regardless if it's exceptionally corrupt or drunk, is perpendicular to the concept of exceptionalism by the virtue of being chosen by God as special people. The concept of American self-righteousness does not exist in Russia the way it does in US. >Putin has the knack for coming off as fairly reasonable to the western audience, but to someone who was born and raised in the former Soviet Union this reads like something from the Onion. I'm curious, were you born and raised in the former Soviet Union?

coffeemug 13y ago
I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I get what you're saying. But you can't seriously say that Russian exceptionalism isn't used in service of rationalizing the belief that the Russians are better people than the rest of the world. Consider the popularity of Zadornov's humor -- the gist of almost every joke is that foreigners are dumber than the Russians. Also this might be nitpicking, but Americans don't typically believe that they were chosen by god as special people. They typically believe that they're special people because they themselves made it happen (which IMO is largely true).
- Demiurge 13y ago
  Of course nationalism exists and is used in Russia. This is true for every country, but I honestly think, having experience with English, American and Spanish cultures, through their media and people as friends, that Russian exceptionism is the most self-denigrating I have ever experienced. On and on people go on how everything is better everywhere else, how everything is shit here in Russia and needs to be copied from some Western example. Jon Stewart, arguably a much better and more intelligent comedian than Zadornov, makes much more ignorant jokes (vodka/bears/Putin) about Russia than Zadornov, whos jokes in part play on the fact that Westerners simply don't have to be smart about some things because they don't deal with 3rd world problems. A lot of people who like Zadornov know this and are crying through tears.
  - varjag 13y ago
    > On and on people go on how everything is better everywhere else, how everything is shit here in Russia and needs to be copied from some Western example. It's a bit complicated. Both Russian disgust towards ethnitities they consider inferior, and their bloated exceptionalism are manifestations of massive national inferiority complex that nearly everyone there suffers from.
- cdi 13y ago
  Americans too have Zadornov type comedians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_the_Cable_Guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_the_Cable_Guy for example. >but Americans don't typically believe that they were chosen by god as special people. very funny. That's what American Exceptionalism is pretty much about if you listen to the right of the political spectrum.

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

In a recent interview, here is how Putin characterized the difference between the American and Russian "soul". He brought up a quote by the main heroine from Gone with the Wind where she said "I can't imagine what it would be like to be hungry all the time". Putin then pointed out that something like this is a primary concern of an American soul (implying base concerns for physical comforts), while this wouldn't be a concern for the Russian soul, which allegedly is concerned with much more important spiritual matters. It makes perfect sense. A Russian doesn't have to imagine what it's like to go hungry, he just knows from experience.

robbiep 13y ago

Thanks for that insightful comment. I like probably 99% of members of the anglosphere had no idea of a Russian mythology/identity although in retrospect it should be obvious that there is one, the same as every country. when i read those lines i was just enjoying the chiding he gives the american national psyche. i delighted in the kong of putin with one hand drawing obama closer and with the other preparing to slap him for being so proud.