5 ms·

Ideas are worth nothing. A 15 minute conversation with any expert in HCI 15 years ago would cover 95% of these ideas. Execution is everything. Microsoft tried

by acchow 13y ago

Ideas are worth nothing. A 15 minute conversation with any expert in HCI 15 years ago would cover 95% of these ideas. Execution is everything. Microsoft tried to execute on some of these ideas, but the result was always too cumbersome/confusing.

educating 13y ago
From what I understand, like you said, the problem was that they spent too many years in "lets fix that later" mode. They couldn't be agile because they had too much crap on the plate. MS needs to have a haircut like Marissa Mayer gave Yahoo. Hardware and SAAS are not the way for MS; they need to get back into large(r) system OS dev in a big way, to run house and building automation. The game console should only be part of it. If they want to do hardware, it better be to run the code they write, otherwise they will be stomped.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  Speaking of Yahoo, have Mayer's ideas turned out to be very effective yet?
  - presidentender 13y ago
    Well, we are speaking of Yahoo.
  - cremnob 13y ago
    They're definitely seeing more traffic. http://readwrite.com/2013/09/11/yahoo-marissa-mayer#awesm=~ohbfUjbayJ7bJz http://readwrite.com/2013/09/11/yahoo-marissa-mayer#awesm=~o...
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Part of that is due to the way they do employee reviews. People are rewarded more (in the form of control over their own job, promotions, and bonuses) for building new things in a short time frame than they are for fixing old stuff that's broken or flawed.
  - dreamfactory 13y ago
    are you saying they have too much focus on innovation?
    - CamperBob2 13y ago
      He's confusing Microsoft and Google, it sounds like. At Microsoft you're rewarded primarily for stabbing your co-workers in the back.
      - educating 13y ago
        Backstabbing happens everywhere, unfortunately. The main problem with MS was that it was too profit driven for too many years instead of trying to do what was best for the users. Making profit eventually has a direct correlation to providing consistent quality that is better than the next guy or more consistently better. It all comes back to happiness; customers are happier when they get what they expect (intuitive) and what the need (low bugs, fast), not what they want (shiny UI). They had some really shitty code. http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 My fav: private\ntos\w32\ntuser\client\nt6\user.h: * The magnitude of this hack compares favorably with that of the national debt.
        notJim 13y ago
        Did you read your link? > Despite the above, the quality of the code is generally > excellent...
        educating 13y ago
        The author was very obviously biased: > In short, there is nothing really surprising in this leak. Microsoft does not steal open-source code. Their older code is flaky, their modern code excellent. Their programmers are skilled and enthusiastic. Problems are generally due to a trade-off of current quality against vast hardware, software and backward compatibility. "Their programmers are skilled and enthusiastic." How would you get that from a code reading? Comments? No developer I know puts enthusiastic comments in unless they are being sarcastic. So, I think the summary tries to whitewash it. The comments show some problems that never got fixed or addressed properly. They are signs that code at the time was being developed quickly and haphazardly. That is what I mean by crappy. And I'm talking about it being historically crappy, not the way it is today. I can't speak for the state of their code in every project they currently manage.
Jacqued 13y ago
I don't contest the idea/execution thing but i don't think this is underwhelming, far from it. What would that same conversation with an HCI expert yield today ? Even though it all seems obvious in retrospect, it mustn't have been that easy to forecast at the time
corresation 13y ago
"Ideas are worth nothing." While it is seen here regularly -- and is always strangely given a pass -- this remains the most profoundly meaningless, if not outright stupid, thing that anyone in this industry can mutter.
- car 13y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree. If this were true, we wouldn't need a patent system.
  - hobb0001 13y ago
    Arguably, the patent system is about execution, not ideas. Science fiction authors have been providing cool ideas for free for some time now.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    Patents don't cover ideas, they cover implementations of those ideas.
    - corresation 13y ago
      There are patents on time machines and those that break the laws of thermodynamics. Because many patents lies at an abstract cross road midway between idea and execution.
      - gnaritas 13y ago
        The patents are still on proposed implementations, not on the idea itself.
- pcrh 13y ago
  I'd have to agree with you. The problem is that good ideas (i.e. groundbreaking,implementable and profitable) are as rare as hen's teeth. Bad and so-so ideas are a dime a dozen.
- jlgreco 13y ago
rbanffy 13y ago
> Ideas are worth nothing. Let's all agree ideas alone are not industrial products.

by acchow 13y ago

educating 13y ago

From what I understand, like you said, the problem was that they spent too many years in "lets fix that later" mode. They couldn't be agile because they had too much crap on the plate. MS needs to have a haircut like Marissa Mayer gave Yahoo. Hardware and SAAS are not the way for MS; they need to get back into large(r) system OS dev in a big way, to run house and building automation. The game console should only be part of it. If they want to do hardware, it better be to run the code they write, otherwise they will be stomped.

sillysaurus2 13y ago
Speaking of Yahoo, have Mayer's ideas turned out to be very effective yet?
- presidentender 13y ago
  Well, we are speaking of Yahoo.
- cremnob 13y ago
  They're definitely seeing more traffic. http://readwrite.com/2013/09/11/yahoo-marissa-mayer#awesm=~ohbfUjbayJ7bJz http://readwrite.com/2013/09/11/yahoo-marissa-mayer#awesm=~o...
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Part of that is due to the way they do employee reviews. People are rewarded more (in the form of control over their own job, promotions, and bonuses) for building new things in a short time frame than they are for fixing old stuff that's broken or flawed.
- dreamfactory 13y ago
  are you saying they have too much focus on innovation?
  - CamperBob2 13y ago
    He's confusing Microsoft and Google, it sounds like. At Microsoft you're rewarded primarily for stabbing your co-workers in the back.
    - educating 13y ago
      Backstabbing happens everywhere, unfortunately. The main problem with MS was that it was too profit driven for too many years instead of trying to do what was best for the users. Making profit eventually has a direct correlation to providing consistent quality that is better than the next guy or more consistently better. It all comes back to happiness; customers are happier when they get what they expect (intuitive) and what the need (low bugs, fast), not what they want (shiny UI). They had some really shitty code. http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 My fav: private\ntos\w32\ntuser\client\nt6\user.h: * The magnitude of this hack compares favorably with that of the national debt.
      - notJim 13y ago
        Did you read your link? > Despite the above, the quality of the code is generally > excellent...
        educating 13y ago
        The author was very obviously biased: > In short, there is nothing really surprising in this leak. Microsoft does not steal open-source code. Their older code is flaky, their modern code excellent. Their programmers are skilled and enthusiastic. Problems are generally due to a trade-off of current quality against vast hardware, software and backward compatibility. "Their programmers are skilled and enthusiastic." How would you get that from a code reading? Comments? No developer I know puts enthusiastic comments in unless they are being sarcastic. So, I think the summary tries to whitewash it. The comments show some problems that never got fixed or addressed properly. They are signs that code at the time was being developed quickly and haphazardly. That is what I mean by crappy. And I'm talking about it being historically crappy, not the way it is today. I can't speak for the state of their code in every project they currently manage.

Jacqued 13y ago

I don't contest the idea/execution thing but i don't think this is underwhelming, far from it. What would that same conversation with an HCI expert yield today ? Even though it all seems obvious in retrospect, it mustn't have been that easy to forecast at the time

corresation 13y ago

"Ideas are worth nothing." While it is seen here regularly -- and is always strangely given a pass -- this remains the most profoundly meaningless, if not outright stupid, thing that anyone in this industry can mutter.

car 13y ago
I wholeheartedly agree. If this were true, we wouldn't need a patent system.
- hobb0001 13y ago
  Arguably, the patent system is about execution, not ideas. Science fiction authors have been providing cool ideas for free for some time now.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  Patents don't cover ideas, they cover implementations of those ideas.
  - corresation 13y ago
    There are patents on time machines and those that break the laws of thermodynamics. Because many patents lies at an abstract cross road midway between idea and execution.
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      The patents are still on proposed implementations, not on the idea itself.
pcrh 13y ago
I'd have to agree with you. The problem is that good ideas (i.e. groundbreaking,implementable and profitable) are as rare as hen's teeth. Bad and so-so ideas are a dime a dozen.
jlgreco 13y ago

rbanffy 13y ago

> Ideas are worth nothing. Let's all agree ideas alone are not industrial products.