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I think if you saw the actual content of these writings you'd be surprised how very little of it has anything to do with whatever it is you imagine it to. The b

I think if you saw the actual content of these writings you'd be surprised how very little of it has anything to do with whatever it is you imagine it to. The bulk of the Jewish literature is about ethics. The historicity of a story is irrelevant to the ethical questions it raises, and Jewish analysis regards the Bible as primarily a source of questions. Judaism is not a religion of creed, so Jews are not required to hold any particular beliefs. I expect you'll be surprised to learn that one can be a religious Jew and an atheist (I know a few, and it's "no other gods before me" not "believe in me" before you ask). Whether you believe in God or treat God as simply some kind of metaphor, the point of Judaism is that you must grapple with it, not blindly accept it. Your final point is hilariously off-base. The mistakes are not only admitted, they are recorded in the book itself. It's easy to impress oneself by reading Leviticus and getting worked up. Make it through Job and Ecclesiastes, and you'll begin to see that complex ideas about this book are established and much older than people assume.

loup-vaillant 13y ago
> Jews are not required to hold any particular beliefs. I don't believe you. More specifically, I don't believe that the majority of people that regularly visit the synagogue think they don't have to hold any particular belief to stay Jew. I believe even less that the majority of Jews who cease to believe in God continue to call themselves religious. > The mistakes are not only admitted, they are recorded in the book itself. Oh. I didn't know the book itself was evidence of the waste of effort I mentioned. Seriously, remove the mistakes already, don't put an erratum 357 pages later.
- fusiongyro 13y ago
  Your disbelief stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of what you're talking about. You imagine that every religion is basically fundamentalist Protestantism. Your loss, I suppose.
  - loup-vaillant 13y ago
    Actually, I was raised in a lukewarm catholic environment, in France. There was no "coming out" as an atheist for me, it was quite… ordinary. My rejection of relativism spurred more heated discussions that my rejection of God, actually. Anyway, every catholic I met believe in God and in the Immaculate Conception. And I think they also believed it was an important, if not fundamental, part of being catholic. Not to mention all the rituals that mention God and Jesus all over the place. Which is why I cannot fathom a religion that does not at least strongly encourages its members to believe in something supernatural. Seriously, you're tempting me to send a e-mail to Robert Aummann¹, and ask him about that. Or read Eliezer Yudkowsky about his childhood. Or just read the wikipedia². Let's see… Oh the chief reason why supernatural belief isn't required is because there's no recognized central authority… I bet however that most Rabbi strongly encourage a belief in something supernatural. If not directly, at least through the rituals they organize. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith
    - fusiongyro 13y ago
      It matters what you believe in Christianity because it is a religion of faith and belief. If you no longer believe in God, you're not a Christian, you're an impostor. But Jewishness is decided by whether you were born Jewish or converted to Judaism. If either of those is true, you are a Jew, regardless of what you believe. None of the laws are predicated on believing in God (the one I mentioned before from the ten commandments precludes believing in other deities, but apparently permits atheism). What makes someone a "bad Jew" is failing to practice Judaism. But there's no incentive to conduct a witchhunt over it, so there's no incentive for rhetoric about the importance of belief. I belong to a Conservative synagogue and I have never heard a sermon about the importance of believing in God. It isn't important. Ethical behavior is, and that is the content of our sermons. It may be difficult to see a point to practicing if you don't believe in God, but, again, I know people who find value in the symbolism and the ritual and the religion's capacity to shape ethical behavior despite not believing in a supernatural being or origin. The entire Reconstructionist movement teaches that Judaism and the Bible were created by mankind. It may be a small movement, but it is real thing, and I know Conservative Jews who are atheists but still get value out of the practice. I'm sure you will be able to find a marginal rabbi (probably "Orthodox", a self-applied label by a movement younger than the Reform) who will activate your confirmation bias. But I assure you, things are different outside your experience.

loup-vaillant 13y ago

> Jews are not required to hold any particular beliefs. I don't believe you. More specifically, I don't believe that the majority of people that regularly visit the synagogue think they don't have to hold any particular belief to stay Jew. I believe even less that the majority of Jews who cease to believe in God continue to call themselves religious. > The mistakes are not only admitted, they are recorded in the book itself. Oh. I didn't know the book itself was evidence of the waste of effort I mentioned. Seriously, remove the mistakes already, don't put an erratum 357 pages later.

fusiongyro 13y ago
Your disbelief stems from your fundamental lack of understanding of what you're talking about. You imagine that every religion is basically fundamentalist Protestantism. Your loss, I suppose.
- loup-vaillant 13y ago
  Actually, I was raised in a lukewarm catholic environment, in France. There was no "coming out" as an atheist for me, it was quite… ordinary. My rejection of relativism spurred more heated discussions that my rejection of God, actually. Anyway, every catholic I met believe in God and in the Immaculate Conception. And I think they also believed it was an important, if not fundamental, part of being catholic. Not to mention all the rituals that mention God and Jesus all over the place. Which is why I cannot fathom a religion that does not at least strongly encourages its members to believe in something supernatural. Seriously, you're tempting me to send a e-mail to Robert Aummann¹, and ask him about that. Or read Eliezer Yudkowsky about his childhood. Or just read the wikipedia². Let's see… Oh the chief reason why supernatural belief isn't required is because there's no recognized central authority… I bet however that most Rabbi strongly encourage a belief in something supernatural. If not directly, at least through the rituals they organize. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Aumann [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith
  - fusiongyro 13y ago
    It matters what you believe in Christianity because it is a religion of faith and belief. If you no longer believe in God, you're not a Christian, you're an impostor. But Jewishness is decided by whether you were born Jewish or converted to Judaism. If either of those is true, you are a Jew, regardless of what you believe. None of the laws are predicated on believing in God (the one I mentioned before from the ten commandments precludes believing in other deities, but apparently permits atheism). What makes someone a "bad Jew" is failing to practice Judaism. But there's no incentive to conduct a witchhunt over it, so there's no incentive for rhetoric about the importance of belief. I belong to a Conservative synagogue and I have never heard a sermon about the importance of believing in God. It isn't important. Ethical behavior is, and that is the content of our sermons. It may be difficult to see a point to practicing if you don't believe in God, but, again, I know people who find value in the symbolism and the ritual and the religion's capacity to shape ethical behavior despite not believing in a supernatural being or origin. The entire Reconstructionist movement teaches that Judaism and the Bible were created by mankind. It may be a small movement, but it is real thing, and I know Conservative Jews who are atheists but still get value out of the practice. I'm sure you will be able to find a marginal rabbi (probably "Orthodox", a self-applied label by a movement younger than the Reform) who will activate your confirmation bias. But I assure you, things are different outside your experience.